Day 077 - 25 Jan 95 - Page 23

     
     1   Q.   Would you summarise for us what is your attitude to the
     2        welfare of animals which are used -- I exclude chickens --
     3        pigs and cattle, to produce food for human consumption?
     4        A.  My conceptions are that no animal will put on weight or
     5        grow unless it is healthy and contented.  You cannot force
     6        an animal to increase its weight.  I definitely think that
     7        we have consideration for animals and their well-being, and
     8        I do both in terms of abattoir and in terms of farming.
     9        I think there is a slight tendency these days to credit
    10        animals with reason which they have not got.
    11
    12        Animals will respond mainly to food; animals do not respond
    13        to environment.  Cattle, providing they are used to being
    14        out in the open, will stay in the open.  You do not have to
    15        put cattle into sheds in the winter.  The only thing that
    16        will stimulate an animal is when the stockman walks down in
    17        the morning, they know it is feed-time.  I know that from
    18        my own experience on my own farm.  I think probably the
    19        most important experiment which taught me that there is no
    20        reason in an animal's brain was the Bywater's experiment at
         Beckton.
    22
    23   Q.   Where is Beckton?
    24        A.  Beckton was a knackers, a knacker yard, down by King
    25        George V Docks.
    26
    27   Q.   In London?
    28        A.  In London.
    29
    30   Q.   Knacker's yard, that is horses then, is it?
    31        A.  That was horses.  I knew Mr. Bywaters when he was Chief
    32        Metropolitan vet and he was a very, very distinguished and
    33        a very deep-thinking man.
    34
    35   Q.   You know the details of this experiment and it forms part
    36        of the basis for your attitude about animal welfare?  Have
    37        I understood that correctly?
    38        A.  Yes, that is true.
    39
    40   Q.   Tell us what you know of that experiment.
         A.  Well, there was a discussion, a veterinary discussion,
    42        in London it.  I was not there at the experiment but I knew
    43        Mr. Bywaters and Mr. Bywaters explained it to me.  They
    44        decided, the veterinary people -----
    45
    46   MS. STEEL:  This is hearsay.
    47
    48   MR. RAMPTON:  It is, indeed, hearsay but there is a reason -----
    49
    50   MS. STEEL:  It should not be allowed, should it, unless there is 
    51        a paper to ----- 
    52 
    53   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What is the source of your information about
    54        it?
    55
    56   THE WITNESS:  Mr. Bywaters himself, sir.
    57
    58   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What is the answer to that?
    59
    60   MR. RAMPTON:  The answer to that, my Lord, is that whatever it