Day 101 - 10 Mar 95 - Page 31

     
     1
     2   Q.   They do not comply to the codes of practices, do they?
     3        A.  Well, the spirit of the code of practice is that that
     4        is the maximum stocking density that you should have under
     5        average conditions with adverse -- sorry, adverse
     6        environmental conditions, i.e. in the middle of the
     7        summer.  Now, in those instances, Sun Valley do comply with
     8        that.
     9
    10   Q.   The codes of practice actually say, "We therefore recommend
    11        that 34 kilograms per metre squared is retained as the
    12        maximum stocking density which should not be exceeded at
    13        any time during the growing period, and this maximum is
    14        controlled by regulation as soon as possible". There is
    15        nothing in there about "but it depends on how you keep
    16        them"?
    17        A.  Well, that comes from discussions with Mark Pattison,
    18        who was one of the people responsible for that publication.
    19
    20   Q.   So, as far as you are concerned, your suppliers do not have
         to comply with the codes of practice as long as they can
    22        persuade you that everything is all right?
    23        A.  Well, it is my interpretation that they are complying
    24        with the spirit of the code of practice, which is exactly
    25        what it is.
    26
    27   Q.   Well, if this became a regulation which is proposed, it
    28        would not be a defence in court to say, "Oh well, we are
    29        complying with the spirit of it", would it?
    30        A.  I doubt it, no.  I do not know.
    31
    32   MR. MORRIS:  If I could interpose one question:  If you were
    33        complying with the spirit of that, surely the spirit is to
    34        protect the welfare of the chickens; is that correct?
    35        A.  Exactly that, yes.
    36
    37   Q.   That is the minimum.  So, if you were going to comply with
    38        the spirit, surely you would encourage Sun Valley to be
    39        well below the maximum stocking density for the benefit of
    40        the chickens?
         A.  No, what I am saying is that the spirit is exactly
    42        that, to preserve the welfare of the chickens.  That is the
    43        maximum stocking density that they should have under
    44        adverse conditions.
    45
    46   Q.   It does not say anything about adverse conditions?
    47        A.  Well, that is what I have been led to believe.
    48
    49   Q.   If the spirit is to keep crowding to the minimum, yes, to
    50        make more space for chickens so they are not suffering, 
    51        then McDonald's would be encouraging its suppliers to be 
    52        well within the maximum limit, would they not? 
    53        A.  No.  You are right, the spirit is to prevent suffering
    54        and, in my opinion, the birds in Sun Valley do not suffer.
    55
    56   MS. STEEL:   You said, is it 27 and a half million birds,
    57        chickens, are reared by Sun Valley for McDonald's use?
    58        A.  I think that is what I have said, yes.
    59
    60   Q.   Check your statement if you want?