Day 132 - 07 Jun 95 - Page 11

     
     1
     2   Q.   Yes, but the word "example" means, does it not, that these
     3        were just ones which they put down just to highlight some
     4        problems, they are not an exhaustive list?
     5        A.  They are saying:  "These are what we have seen in our
     6        audit.  These are things that we consider.  There may be
     7        others", and that is why they use the word "example", of
     8        course.
     9
    10   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  The only other thing I can think of in the
    11        report where they make criticism of what they actually saw
    12        on the ground is the supervisors working in the stores and,
    13        on occasions, filtering the hot shortening without wearing
    14        the protective equipment which they thought was a poor
    15        example.
    16        A.  Indeed so.  I am not sure what reference -----
    17
    18   Q.   Can you recall any other -----
    19        A.  I cannot recall any other examples, my Lord.
    20
    MR. MORRIS:  It would be irresponsible of the HSE to do an
    22        analysis of systems of companies, which is obviously in
    23        their brief, and then claim to paint a comprehensive
    24        picture of each particular job and whether the
    25        specifications were accurate and the training was effective
    26        for that particular job, etc. etc., would it not?  It is
    27        just that they noticed some things in passing?
    28        A.  No, I am sorry.  You do not notice things in passing.
    29        This is a result of a systematic, in-depth audit.  What you
    30        do is you take certain jobs, you look at tasks, you look at
    31        the ways things are taken.  You use sampling techniques to
    32        make sure that you have established what the true situation
    33        is on the ground.  I am sure that is the way that the HSE
    34        would have gone about their work.
    35
    36   Q.   In that case, why did they not interview any crew members?
    37        A.  I have no idea.
    38
    39   Q.   They did not interview any crew members because -- that is
    40        on page 873, the people they interviewed -- they were
         looking at the systems.
    42
    43   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, Mr. Morris is in something of a
    44        difficulty with this document ---
    45
    46   MR. MORRIS:  I am not in any difficulty at all.
    47
    48   MR. RAMPTON:  -- if I may say so.  Your Lordship may recall that
    49        the Defendants put a Civil Evidence Act notice on this
    50        report which was written by a Mr. Andrew Foster, in fact. 
    51        Some considerable time ago we served a counter notice 
    52        because Mr. Andrew Foster (who wrote the report) is in this 
    53        country.  That means that if Mr. Morris really wants to be
    54        able to assert what this report means and what are the
    55        facts underlying what is written in it, then he must call
    56        Mr. Foster as a witness.
    57
    58   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I just want to -- do not ask another question
    59        for the moment.
    60