Day 151 - 10 Jul 95 - Page 06
1 Q. Pardon?
2 A. I would not have known.
3
4 Q. So, in fact, you do not know if there was or was not a
5 large amount of unemployed people in Leicester at the time?
6 A. No, I do not.
7
8 MR. ATKINSON: My Lord, the reference is page 19 of the
9 transcript. I think there was talk about this business of
10 starting below the new starting rate.
11
12 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes, thank you.
13
14 MR. MORRIS: You said, in reply to a question about people not
15 being compelled to work hours they did not want, to that
16 you replied that there was plenty of opportunity to work
17 elsewhere. I have not got the reference. (Pause) But the
18 reality is, Mr. Stanton, is it not, that people work at
19 McDonald's because they need the money, do they not?
20 A. Somebody has a job for some money. I mean, there is
21 nothing wrong with people working at McDonald's for money.
22
23 Q. People take a job at McDonald's which, as has been
24 accepted, in the provinces, is starting rate minimum wage;
25 people take low wage or minimum wage level jobs because
26 they are desperate and they need the money?
27 A. I think the reality is far from that. I think people
28 take jobs, people stay at jobs because they enjoy it, they
29 find it fulfilling; and, in their own personal opinion,
30 they get a sufficient return for the job -- as would
31 anybody looking to join an employer.
32
33 Q. If they do not stay, it is because they are not satisfied
34 with the conditions -- conversely, then?
35 A. Not necessarily.
36
37 MR. JUSTICE BELL: We have got to a much more sophisticated
38 level than that.
39
40 MR. MORRIS: I do not know if we have.
41
42 MR. JUSTICE BELL: That may be the reason or not. It does not
43 automatically follow.
44
45 MR. MORRIS: McDonald's want it all ways.
46
47 MR. JUSTICE BELL: No. You got the answer you wanted about five
48 or so minutes ago, which I noted as follows: "I do not know
49 whether there were lots of jobs available or plenty of
50 opportunity to work elsewhere in Leicester." You can mount
51 your argument in relation to that.
52
53 MR. MORRIS: Yes. I mean -----
54
55 MR. JUSTICE BELL: All Mr. Stanton is saying is that it his view
56 -- and you can challenge him further on this if you wish
57 -- that people stay at jobs because they enjoy them. That
58 is what he says he thinks. It does not mean, automatically
59 or logically, that if they leave a job it is because they
60 did not enjoy it. An obvious example is of a woman who
