Day 156 - 17 Jul 95 - Page 20

     
     1        the Plaintiffs have done with whether we were either lying
     2        or whether we were reckless.
     3
     4   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.  What I would do, I would actually sit
     5        down and write them out.  I would pick your high water
     6        mark, then put after that, if you like, "alternatively
     7        that", but do not shrink from what your high watermark is.
     8
     9   MS. STEEL:  The point is that all the leaflet says is that
    10        turnover is high and that there are reasons for it, which
    11        are bad pay and conditions, basically.  I do not see that
    12        there is any need to specify whether it is -----
    13
    14   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I think there is because you are making an
    15        allegation which goes further than that.
    16
    17   MS. STEEL:  I do not know that we have.  I mean, Mr. Rampton
    18        said that it was something that Mr. Morris put.  He did not
    19        specify when it was that it was put.  I am not entirely
    20        sure whether that necessarily has been put.
    21
    22   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It is for my benefit as much as anything.  If
    23        it is for my benefit, it should be for your benefit too,
    24        because it is for my benefit in the sense that I need to
    25        understand just what case you are putting.  The message
    26        I have got from questions put so far is that you are
    27        positively alleging that McDonald's want turnover to be
    28        high which, of course, they can only achieve by treating
    29        crew in some uncongenial way in order that they will leave
    30        sooner rather than later and that their replacement will
    31        come in on a basic wage, and that a lesser proportion of
    32        McDonald's crew will get five, 10, or 15p once or two or
    33        three times over.  That is the message I have got from
    34        cross-examination so far.
    35
    36        If that is right, if I have got the right message, then
    37        there is absolutely no harm in writing it down so we can
    38        see it is your pleaded case.  If I have the wrong message,
    39        there is even better reason for writing it down so that
    40        I can disabuse myself.
    41
    42   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, that is exactly my problem.  What your
    43        Lordship has just recited is exactly the impression that
    44        I received.  If that is the Defendants' case, I want to
    45        know it.
    46
    47   MS. STEEL:  I think part of this problem arises because
    48        Mr. Rampton puts his interpretation of what he thinks our
    49        pleadings are, and then they get taken as though that is
    50        common ground, but it is not at all.  I think Mr. Rampton 
    51        is continually trying to misrepresent what our case is. 
    52 
    53   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Mr. Rampton raised it, but I am not bringing
    54        Mr. Rampton into the equation at the moment.  I am telling
    55        you what I think you should do so that I understand what
    56        your case is on this aspect of the employment section.
    57        I cannot see that there is any difficulty about it.  Why
    58        not help me by writing it out?
    59
    60   MR. MORRIS:  No, but we can do that; it is just that we did it