Day 177 - 26 Oct 95 - Page 04

     
     1        new; if you wish to cross-examine in relation to new
     2        matters entirely or to some extent, then you should do so,
     3        but that Mr. Gibney should return for further
     4        cross-examination, if required, in due course; and then we
     5        can see at the end of the Monday or on Tuesday -- if
     6        Mr. Gibney goes into Tuesday -- where we have got to.
     7
     8        If new matters are coming in, at the moment I am minded to
     9        think we should abandon what has previously been the
    10        situation of you having to call your witnesses ahead of the
    11        Defendants' witnesses, because that just ends up being
    12        inconvenient.  It does not really matter what the order is,
    13        as long as I hear the relevant evidence on both sides.
    14
    15   MR. RAMPTON:  I mean, I am bound to say that I have always
    16        felt rather cheesed off as a plaintiff, that the plaintiff
    17        has to go first, when the defendant in a case of
    18        justification has the burden of proof.
    19
    20   MR. JUSTICE BELL: That is always swings and roundabouts, because
         if the plaintiff wants the first and last say, they have to
    22        go first.
    23
    24   MR. JUSTICE BELL: I think the Court of Appeal has said that is
    25        the right way to do it.  All I meant by that comment was
    26        that I agree with your Lordship, respectfully, that if it
    27        means in due course I have to call rebuttal evidence, I do
    28        not myself see that it matters very much.
    29
    30        The only thing that does matter, really matter, is first,
    31        obviously, I should have sufficient notice in time to deal
    32        with any new allegations which have not been indicated; the
    33        second thing is that if we are to deal with Clacton,
    34        Ipswich, Stevenage and Lowestoft over a number of years --
    35        I know not how many, because no dates are given -- this
    36        case is never going to end.
    37
    38   MR. JUSTICE BELL: I am far from persuaded that we should embark
    39        on Clacton, Ipswich, Leicester, Stevenage and Lowestoft.
    40        I will hear what Mr. Morris has to say in a moment, but
         I do not know to what extent there are substantial
    42        allegations in respect of that.
    43
    44   MR. RAMPTON:  Absolutely.
    45
    46   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  At the moment, my feeling is -- though I have
    47        not heard what Mr. Morris has to say -- that if Mr. Gibney
    48        gets on with Colchester and Milton Keynes, which he does
    49        mention in his statement, then that is going to be quite
    50        enough one way or the other.  Either I accept his evidence 
    51        and, if I do, the substantial complaints, or I do not; and, 
    52        if I do not, one can forget Clacton, Ipswich, Leicester, 
    53        Stevenage and Lowestoft anyway.  Is there anything more you
    54        want to say?
    55
    56   MR. RAMPTON:  Can I mention Mr. Pearson, as I am on my feet?  It
    57        is not such a serious problem, but it is a problem.  One
    58        reason why it is not such a serious problem is, he is not
    59        due to give evidence, I think, until Wednesday.
    60