Day 206 - 22 Jan 96 - Page 32
1 I just want to add one other matter while I am on it, that
2 if any of the matters which are the subject of Mr. Stein's
3 written statement and the transcript before the
4 Congressional Committee have actually led to convictions,
5 it should not be impossible to obtain certificates of
6 conviction, either from the court in question or the
7 enforcement authority. There ought to be ways, Mr. Morris
8 -- I address you because you have primarily argued this --
9 of finding out whether the Milwaukee Wisconsin matter ever
10 did come to a conviction of any kind.
11
12 MR. MORRIS: If it is pleaded, as it has been and accepted, then
13 the Plaintiffs either have to make an admission --
14 presumably, they have to make an admission if it is true.
15
16 MR. JUSTICE BELL: No, they do not have to admit anything. You
17 know that by now after all your involvement in this case.
18
19 MR. MORRIS: Yes, I mean, obviously, you know, the impossible
20 task of trawling around the world can be left to us unwaged
21 Defendants -----
22
23 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I do not accept that. What I propose to do
24 is to add, when I perfect the judgment I gave on last
25 Wednesday, I think it was, a sentence so that you have
26 actually got it on the transcript of the ruling -- whatever
27 other transcripts you are getting, you are getting the ones
28 of the rulings -- something to the effect that the matters
29 which were in those amendments 4 to 10, those seven
30 amendments, are all on the face of them convictions.
31 I think some of the amendments refer to convictions ---
32
33 MR. MORRIS: Fines and things.
34
35 MR. JUSTICE BELL: -- but if they do not refer to convictions,
36 they refer to fine which can only follow a conviction, as
37 I understand it. So, by inference, it is a conviction.
38 Those are matters which are in the public domain. The
39 documentation in relation to those is as available to you
40 as it is to the Plaintiffs. Granted, that you are
41 representing yourselves. You have the information, as
42 I understand it. You gave me some information about it
43 last year; a gentleman who had run it out on a computer
44 search. As I understand the information you gave me then,
45 the printout which I got was the summarised version of the
46 much larger body of information which had come from press
47 cuttings. In fact, there was a pintout of one particular
48 press cutting which, I think, was in the Washington Post,
49 do you remember. But, as I understand it, the long
50 printout you got from which you extracted, among other
51 things, the matters which are the subject of
52 interrogatories 4 to 10, those seven amendments,
53 containment from the potted version.
54
55 MR. MORRIS: The problem is what would we have to get to -- do
56 we have to get proof or indication of -----
57
58 MR. JUSTICE BELL: In this country -- it may be the same in
59 relation to America -- if someone is convicted in a court,
60 you can get a certificate of conviction from the court and
