Day 285 - 23 Oct 96 - Page 09

     
     1   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   Must I not treat it all the same, I mean,
     2        if he gives facts and figures or makes statement of fact
     3        without saying just what the basis of them is?
     4
     5   MR. MORRIS:   Well, the character of his statement about
     6        McDonald's specific direct importation of beef into the
     7        USA is clearly based on what someone else has told him or
     8        a general impression.  And it is a negative case, a
     9        negative case like, you know, it could be equivalent to
    10        saying, well I have never heard or seen any evidence of
    11        this, but that is not evidence that it did not happen; it
    12        is only evidence that he did not see or hear of any
    13        specific --
    14
    15   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Well, that may be, so long as you are
    16        content that I apply the same test, wherever it takes me,
    17        to the statements which you would rely on.  I mean, you
    18        may be right.  When I look at them, I will not think they
    19        are hearsay, but I have got to apply the same test in
    20        principle, have I not?   There we are.  I mean, I think
         I have to.  I do not think there can be any argument about
    22        it.  If it is said that -- well, I think I have just got
    23        to apply the same test.  I do not know where it will take
    24        me, because I will have to look at his article again more
    25        closely.
    26
    27   MR. MORRIS:   I do point out that he says in one of his
    28        statements, he specifically stated that he did not know of
    29        anyone at Conservation International who had ever seen,
    30        and he made inquiries, who had ever seen the records of
    31        McDonald's beef supplies.  And if you remember, it was in
    32        one of the documents that we put to Ed Oakley, I think,
    33        that they had made their beef supply records available to
    34        Conservation International and some other organisation, I
    35        can't remember what it was called now, and Dr. Nations
    36        made inquiries and did he not think that was true.  He
    37        could not find anybody.
    38
    39        Anyway, that was a bit of a digression.  But I think not
    40        only is the global case unarguable, McDonald's have not
         argued against it because they cannot argue against it.
    42        And effectively we could take the position, which is
    43        McDonald's role in the hamburger industry is so pivotal
    44        and the damage that that industry has done as a result is
    45        so great that the rest of the case on tropical forests and
    46        rainforests pales into minor detail in comparison, because
    47        the fact is tropical forests, rainforests have been
    48        destroyed to satisfy global demand, and McDonald's, if any
    49        single organisation can be identified as the cause, they
    50        would be the main culprit.
    51
    52        So just concentrating on that one point that I raised from 
    53        Dr. Nations about how cheap beef imports have kept the
    54        price down of beef in general in the USA, McDonald's,
    55        whether or not they use imported beef, benefit from the
    56        import of beef with cheaper prices.
    57
    58   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   Yes.
    59
    60   MR. MORRIS:   Secondly, or possibly fifthly, the sheer volume