Day 286 - 24 Oct 96 - Page 09

     
     1        have sent to Britain at that time, 1984 I think it was,
     2        would have been cattle bought on the open market which
     3        would have included substantial amounts of cattle being
     4        fattened up.  That was in his letter, we would say.
     5        (Pause).  And of course we have the expert opinion of
     6        Professor Susannah Hecht regarding the supplies to
     7        slaughter houses in Goiana, the cow calf operations there.
     8        We also have the witnessed transport of live cattle in
     9        Bordon trucks seen by Sue Branford, which she refers to
    10        going down the road to Campo Grande.
    11
    12        Our witnesses are people who have studied, researched,
    13        witnessed, documented the cattle ranching industry, the
    14        beef production industry and its effects on social and
    15        environmental matters in this region that we are talking
    16        about.  So, these are not issues that are marginal to those
    17        experts; these are their field of concern.
    18
    19        Although Sue Branford did not claim to be an expert on
    20        vegetation, she specifically -- for a start, I think she
         was underplaying herself because she said that it was her
    22        job to understand the effects, including the environmental
    23        effects, of the beef industry on the Amazon region, but
    24        also she had also seen with her own eyes the areas
    25        identified by McDonald's and could say with complete
    26        clarity, not out of opinion but out of fact, that the
    27        nature of that area in terms of the lush green belt forest,
    28        for example, that the fact sheet identifies as the area of
    29        concern, the lush green belt around the equator, tropical
    30        areas that we have been talking about.
    31
    32        You asked her on day 251, page 24 of the transcript, "How
    33        did this dense, moist forest, as you have described it,
    34        with the tall trees, compare with what everyone - whatever
    35        their terminology - would call Amazonian rainforest,
    36        actually near the Amazon itself".  She says she is not an
    37        expert on forest, "but it is what you imagine as people
    38        think of as tropical forest with big trees and they
    39        were....  It was difficult to clear because the trees were
    40        so dense.  So I saw this on a lot of the ranches.  They
         imported huge tractors from Japan."
    42
    43        And then you asked:  "You are saying it is the same", which
    44        is the question you asked before, the same as what anyone
    45        would call Amazonian rainforest. Answer:  "Yes, it is the
    46        same, and they cleared it", et cetera, et cetera. "It is
    47        not all like that, but all over the Amazon, even in the
    48        heart of the Amazonian forest, there will be areas of what
    49        they call campo..."  And a discussion about that.
    50 
    51        The point I am making is, she can tell the difference 
    52        between campo and rainforest. 
    53
    54   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Well, no doubt she can, but from your point
    55        of view, I mean, I do not -- it would be wrong to transfer
    56        it to Brazil, but when Spaniards talk of campo, they just
    57        mean out in the fields.  What I thought she was saying is
    58        that in the area she was talking about there are what she
    59        would see as forest, which is just the same as Amazonian
    60        forest, it has open spaces in it as well.  But even in the