Day 291 - 31 Oct 96 - Page 11

     
     1        count to seven.  Is there any way in which he can be
     2        assured that the tongs are going to stay on for seven
     3        seconds."
     4
     5        And I think that that is a relevant point to take into
     6        consideration, particularly when there is nobody there
     7        making the inspection, such as Dr. Gregory, it is very
     8        likely that temptation is going to be to just get it all
     9        done as quickly as possible without due concern for whether
    10        or not the animal has been properly stunned.
    11
    12        Just some final points from the evidence of Mr. Long.  This
    13        was dealing with the evidence....  I don't know whether I
    14        need to deal with this actually, but just in case, this was
    15        dealing with the evidence of Mr. Gonzales who said that the
    16        fact that the animals were eating, or, in the case of
    17        poultry, laying eggs, that that was a sign that they must
    18        be happy.
    19
    20        He was asked what was his view about that whole area of
         opinion.  He said that does not tie up at all.  Many fat
    22        apparently over-fed human beings are very unhappy.  Some
    23        people and animals eat because they are unhappy.  He said
    24        that basically that is because there was not anything else
    25        for them to do.  So I would say that is common sense; it is
    26        just ridiculous for the assertion to be made that if an
    27        animals is eating, it must be happy, or if an animal is
    28        laying an egg, it must be happy.  Obviously we would say
    29        that that casts doubts on Mr. Gonzales' ability to judge
    30        whether or not the animals are suffering.
    31
    32        I will not go through all of this, but I do not know how
    33        much of an issue this is going to be in the case.  I mean,
    34        it was something that was introduced by the Plaintiffs, all
    35        those forms from around the world, which basically are
    36        largely hearsay, so far as we can see.  In their
    37        compilation.  In any event, Dr. Long comments on those
    38        forms on page 53.  So if you read through those.  He did
    39        say that he was extremely unhappy about some of the things
    40        that he had read about the methods of slaughter being used
         by McDonald's suppliers in other countries.  (Pause)
    42
    43        Just one final point.  Actually this is the notes of pigs,
    44        there are other notes of cows.  Mr. Long was asked about
    45        whether he would defer to Dr. Gregory's judgment, and he
    46        said that he would certainly listen to his evidence but he
    47        would listen to it critically, and his view was that he
    48        should be more generous to the animal; where there was
    49        doubt the benefit of the doubt should be given towards the
    50        welfare of the animal rather than the commercial 
    51        considerations.  That is not an exact quote, but that is 
    52        summing up the effect of what he was saying. 
    53
    54        He said that he would regard himself as more of a shop
    55        steward for the animal, looking at it in particular from
    56        the animal's perspective, and he said, "I think Professor
    57        Gregory perhaps looks at it more from the industrial point
    58        of view, so I would give the animal better latitude."
    59
    60        This was just on the point that you raised the other day