: I have read quite a bit of this debating room and the others and this free-flow of views is refreshing and what I find exciting about the internet. It is mostly this sort of thing that has convinced an old Luddite like me that this technology has some merit.Good. It is important that people don't turn off without trying it. Whilst we have a fair share of abusive jocks here, we also have sensible, concerned people on both sides. Speaking as a committed anti-McD's person, I would say the existence of this debating room is an essential part of the site.
: I was always a Socialist, and at heart if I had more faith in humanity I still would be. I guess I am just a Nihilist now. What intelligence/security community and even had dinner with a cabinet minister. But I can tell you that all these people are committed to what they do and firmly believe that what they are doing is right. They can be very pleasant and decent people.
Of course. Let us never make the mistake of demonizing anyone just because they disagree with us. That way lies repression and intolerance. It is, in my opinion, one of the unfortunate facets of the heirarchy that it is open to manipulation by small groups - a forceful Home Secretary or Prime Minister can swing the legislature to the point where it does become repressive. My own feelings are that a constructive anarchy would help here, but of course, I could be wrong.
: For those of you that condemn direct action and violence to achieve political aims let me remind you of a few facts. The very democratic institutions that the Western World espouses were built on violent political opposition to the status quo. Throughout the history of Britain and especially during the English civil war the "London Mob" have rioted and generally gone bananas whenever their political aspirations have been thwarted. Pacifying unruly elements of society has resulted in the Democracy all the capitalists hold so dear. And for you Yanks just look at your war of Independence. Your whole country is built on a violent insurrection! Casually accepting the status quo only leads to stagnation.
Yet there are ways to rebel without cracking heads. I'm all for direct action. I'm utterly against violence. If you can make the other's position untenable whilst remaining peaceful yourself, you are halfway to winning public opinion and the day.
Asatyagraha[1] is not the head-in-the-clouds hippy approach that people tend to assume it is. Frequently it is harder to keep your cool than to lose it, and when they other side get violent it becomes harder still.
Yet I'm more than ever convinced that it's the way to positive change. Violence breeds violence - each defeat creates embittered losers, and the cause becomes embroiled in hate.
If examples you seek - look at the creation of the world's largest democracy (India). Subharsh Chandra Bose favoured getting rid of the British by any means - to the point of creating an Indian brigade in the Japanese Army (which was slaughtered wholesale at Kohima). In his turn, Ghandiji wanted the same end but was a committed pacifist. Not only did Ghandi achieve more, but he also helped prevent mass bloodshed in West Bengal following partition - the people appear to trust someone far more when they don't have blood all over their hands.
: For those of you that believe that Marxist or Socialist ideology is a template for a successful society let me tell you from bitter experience and sad recognition that there are no solutions. You can just hope that you can curb the worst of mankind's excesses.
If you try and rebuild the same old patterns, yes, you are likely to fail and fail badly. If you try to teach people not to make the same mistakes (yes, it is a near-insurmountable task, but it's worthwile), we might be able to make our world into something really positive and productive.
We need something new, and we need it now. Which is one of the reasons that I think places like this are useful - as a melting-pot for ideas.
(And before anyone accuses me of being a bleeding-heart liberal hippy, I'm not. I think that, with a will, we can do it. Forward with non-violent direct action, and let the wounds be on your chests, not your backs!)
(I've also just spent a truly amazing month in India, where the culture seems to be a lot more sensible in a lot of ways, albeit not perfect (the rural culture, anyway - the cities are victim to a lot of the Western vices...))
Gideon.
[1]Asatyagraha = non-violent direct action. Property is fair game, but people and plants and animals are _not_ to be harmed.
None.
