: EC:
: Who? Believers! And since you only pick and choose comfortable bible quotes, The pot doesn't even see the kettle and still calls it black.
: and ignore the real mandate to share the world's bounty, then maybe you aren't the believer you claim to be. Only you can answer that question! (And they shared everything, material things, food, etc., something the "christians" of today resist with their greedy "every-man for himself" attitudes.
Oh, I've answered the question myself alright. I'm going to
heaven when I die (or maybe sooner) because of the sacrafice
of my Savior - Jesus Christ when He offered Himself up to be
crucified on my behalf. When He rose from the dead after three
days He conquered death for me and I accept it. Sadly, you've
said you don't. If you think you'll hedge your bet through
your experiments in altruism, don't try it. The log in the eye
is legalism (or the belief that heaven is awarded through
doing good works).
You can't be forced to see the context of this verse but nearly
everyone who believes the Bible wants to know what God's will is.
This intractable attitude has forced you out of the realm of the
rational and into a very narrow mindset.
: Stu:
: Try verse 9:7 -
: : "Let each one do as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver".
: : Does that call out against organized "equality" or what?
: EC:
: It sure calls out against forced drudgery of the capitalist system! I have considered using this very quote myself, but you saved me the trouble. The problem is that you cannot see the compullsion that exists today, and believe everyone on the planet (Earth, not Planet Amerika) has the same circumstances as you and I do in comparitively cushy Western WA.
Again this is utterly out of context but that won't stop you from
struggling for some sort of affirmation of your purposes. If God
really had some point to make with this scripture and you not
only missed it, but you try to force it into your mold, are you
not attempting to suboordinate God to your agenda? Are you
being your own God? That's what got Satan kicked out of heaven.
Read that verse and the surrounding text 10 times with effort
and then write back to say it speaks against the "forced drudgery
of the capitalist system". I don't doubt you wanted to use this
verse before. I do doubt that you can be objective and think
critically after years of brainwashing yourself to the point
that you think of capitalism when you read this passage.
: Let each one do as purposed in his heart! What a great ringing endorsement to ending wage slavery and corporatate governance!!!
Out of context. Nothing to do with your agenda. What does it
mean? That as a person decides to give to God and God's people
(in context) he makes the decision of how much and when himself.
He needs to make sure that this decision is of the heart and
not forced on him by other men. Now that is quite nearly the
opposite of what any redistributionist system would require in
order to function properly, assuming it could.
: Stu:
: : "Religion is the opiate of the masses." We fundamentalists must be
: : taking this one out of context.
: EC:
: A couple things:
: The soviet government was not democratic socialism, communism, or anything else like it. It was state capitalist, monopolized by the powerful, something the US and other western nations are full-steam-ahead towards.
: The despots in the soviet union rounded up democratic industrial unionists at the same time the US did it here. As far as the rounding up and execution of anyone, I oppose it no matter what it calls itself. You need to read a little more about the IWW before you take us as an endorsement of the Soviet government, China's government, or ANY despotic government. I thought you knew this, Stu, but maybe you are trying to cloud this up for other readers.
: Religion=God? Is that what you think? So if someone says religion is the opiate of the masses, does that mean God is? I thought you were amongst those who do not refer to yourself as "religious." Correct me if this is a mis-statement, please.
Maybe you wish to redefine communism for the countless
millions of other people who think of the Soviet Union
and China when the word "communism" is used. I will
apologize to you on behalf of all of them in an effort
to make you feel better about the world's lack of
understanding of that most perfect of human inventions
which is true, unfettered (by sin) communism.
I'm sorry. That said, I know the IWW doesn't support
the totalitarian versions of that philosophy. I merely
respond to the trivial use of the phrase "godless
communism" which you didn't think 2 seconds about before
you typed. If the world does think about the USSR and
China when they hear the phrase "godless communism" then
your cavalier use of the phrase was at best thoughtless.
At worst it is a morbid equation of the early church of
Christ and the godless communism of the USSR and China.
: You have made statements that none of the bible quotes I have offered here count because I "don't believe", but I ask you a couple of questions: If YOU believe, then all those things should apply to you, and you can just believe I'm going to hell; so why do you ignore those central parts of your favorite book?
If you really think the central parts of the Bible are about
sharing and giving (which I've never trivialized) then you don't
seek God or His righteousness, just affirmation that you are
good. The Bible is a book that deals with your eternal soul.
The earth is temporal and heaven and hell are eternal. I'm not
going to stand by and watch you use this book to support your
temporal quest (on the internet) while you plunge to your
death and possibly take others with you. Not while I'm
here anyway.
: Is it up to me or you to decide who is worthy of food, clothing, or shelter?
Knock yourself out. Give away anything you wish with my blessing.
When you advocate a system that will FORCE me to give my bounty
away and remove my right to choose the recipient and the amount
to give we will argue - but I will never change my mind. Not as long
God's word is clear about this.
: Apparently you think you know God's will better than I do. Judge not...
What judgement have I made? YOU claim to be an unbeliever - not
me. When I say it I am repeating you. How can an unbeliever know God's will? This is elementry. It's a funny position to be in; wanting it
both ways. You want to borrow your integrity from God but want to
pay Him back with distrust and unbelief. Well, Jesus waits patiently
for you Mike.
Stuart Gort
