Message #37 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 12 Feb 91 22:17:00 From : Michael Brandt To : Richard Abrams Subj : Re: memory At first sorry about my English i hope it is readeble All you need is: 16 X Ram Chips 41256/100 2 X Resistor 33Ohm 0.25Watt a little bit of soldering practice 2 meter wire and of course an solder iron Open your Computer and remove the metall cover You see 16pcs of Ram Chips on the motherboard. At first you have to turn pins 4 & 15 of your new Chips carefully sideways. Now you put the new Ram Chips exact onto the originals. Conect all the pins 1:1 by soldering but be carefull dont heat them up to long! Now connect pin 4 from each new ram together and wire it direclty to Pin 18 of the MMU Most of the 520 Boards have 3 solderpoints named RAS1 CAS1H CAS1L This pin 18 of the MMU is named RAS1, you need it on all Chips pin 4! Connect pin 15 from the new Chips, which you soldert onto the original Chip numbers U16 U17 U18 U24 U25 U28 U29 U30, together and wire it with an 33 Ohm resistor to pin 21 of the MMU or to the solderpoint named CAS1L Connect pin 15 from the new Chips which you soldert onto the original Chip numbers U32 U33 U34 U38 U42 U43 U44 U45, together and wire it with an 33 Ohm resistor to pin 22 of the MMu or to the solderpoint named CAS1H Be shure that no pin 4 or 15 from a new Chip is conected to a pin 4 or 15 of a original Chip! Be shure that all pins 4 are wired to pin 18 of the MMU! Be shure that the pins 15 from eight of your sixteen new Chips (they are pick a back soldert on the originals U16 a.s.o) are wired to the CAS1L =pin 21 of the MMU Be shure that the pins 15 from the other eight new Chips (they are pick a back soldert on the originals U31 a.s.o) are wired to the CAS1H =pin 22 of the MMU I hope you can anderstan my writings because I'm not used to write in English!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BY MIKEL --- LED ST 0.10 [BYE 0.26] * Origin: The best forget the rest (2:248/15.2) Message #38 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 12 Feb 91 23:43:00 From : Michael Brandt To : Ivan Venturi Subj : Re: TOS Switching Hi Ivan Why dont you burn the TOS into 27512 Eproms? They are switcheble ! You burn the TOS 1.02 in the lower and the 1.04 in the upper bank of the Eproms and than you got a switcheble ST MIKEL --- LED ST 0.10 [BYE 0.26] * Origin: The best forget the rest (2:248/15.2) Message #59 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 14 Feb 91 14:07:00 From : Christian_Schmitz-Moormann To : Richard Hanby Subj : Mega STE > Has anyone seen the Mega STE yet? Is it worth buying > or shall I defect to the PC/Mac camp? What do you want to do with your computer. There may be several reasons to defect to a different computer camp, but only if you don't want to emulate. The STE sounds quite nice, but if it is the usual (very low) ATARI quality I wouldn't spend a penny for it. Why did I buy an ATARI (way back in 1985) ? It was competitive. Why would I not buy an ATARI now? It's cheap. Tschuess...CSM P.S. I have a MEGA with almost no original parts anymore. --- FD 1.99c via Scantoss 1.26 * Origin: Point #15 der CCB Mailbox - CSM - Und Tschuess... (2:244/8580.15) Message #158 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 18 Feb 91 11:35:08 From : Peter Kocourek To : Christian_Schmitz-Moormann Subj : (60) Re: Stuff >> PK>> elders decided not to incorporate GDOS in the ROMs, little did >> SM> It was just _impossible_ as there was not enough space for it >> SM> in the ROMs. CS> At the time the ST was made in a big hurry (it took less than 6 CS> months). There was no time to optimize the code of the OS. If they had CS> done that, they would have saved dozens of K which could have been CS> used for GDOS. They didn't. Sigh. In itself, it is no mean achievenment to design a computer such as the ST in such a short timespan, so they could be forgiven for not incorporating GDOS into the first TOS version, but by the time they released TOS 1.2 they had had ample time to optimize and improve, and thus the excuse is no longer valid... CS> There are people out there that have turned TOS back into source code CS> and reassmbled it with better tools and quite impressive results in CS> speed and room gained. Yes... where would the ST be without dedicated hobbyists that do what Atari should have done in the first place? Annulosely Wagnerian greetings, Peter. --- LED 1.00 * Origin: On & On & On... The Bright Blue No Turning Back Point (2:281/505.2) Message #79 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 12 Feb 91 17:40:32 From : Ralf Urmersbach To : Singh Khanna Subj : Re: Atari Power? > Only in comparison with other Atari products. The TT is a 16MHz > machine with a 32MHz CPU. Sound familiar? Lower the speed and it > sounds like the ST. 1 VME slot?!?!? Gimme a break, that's a sad > joke! As a souped-up ST, the TT is a winner. As a UNIX machine, > Commodore's A3000 UNIX already blows the TT away, power and price. > And the Intel '386/'486 machines? The Amiga 3000 is a 16 MHz machine too with a 16 MHz CPU (25 MHz if you pay enough), why should it blow away the TT? And the Amiga 3000 is more expensive than the TT. Additionally, the Amiga accesses its video-system with 8 Mhz , the TT does it with 16 MHz, because the video-ram is 64 bit wide and the Processor can use page interleave access. And 386/486 are 4.77 MHz systems with 16 bit, if you regard their bus systems. With a good portion of luck, you can run the bus with 12 Mhz. Due to their poor bus interface, the performance of PC/ATs is very poor on graphic user interfaces such as Xwindows. Most people here putting down the TT had never seen one, neither they had the opportunity to use one. A true 32 MHz system cannot be paid from anyone here, because there are no dynamic RAMs fast enough so there must be very expensive static RAMS in such a computer. Besides this facts, there are no peripheral components available for 32 Mhz, so most of the professional (VME- ) systems made by FORCE or MOTOROLA run their CPUs at higher speed than the other parts in the system. As a Motorola official told me at a developer's meeting some weeks ago, running a CPU at higher speed than the rest is a very effective method to speed up a system at low costs. Also the small internal cache of the 68030 is well suited for UNIX applications, because the cache must be flushed very often in a multiprocessing environment and a larger cache would never be filled up. Does anyone here believe, that in a 33 MHz '386 anything other than the CPU runs at 33 MHz? Greetings Ralf --- LED ST 0.10 * Origin: Karlsruhe, Germany (2:241/7501.6) Message #90 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 15 Feb 91 19:14:46 From : Stefan Unland To : Richard Hanby Subj : Re: Mega STE In a message of <10 Feb 91 12:16:00>, Richard Hanby (2:250/103) writes: > Has anyone seen the Mega STE yet? Is it worth buying or shall I defect > to the PC/Mac camp? Well, I think that the MSTE ist worth its price, but you should know if you'd better change to a PC/MAC. Compared to a "normal" Mega ST, it's very cheap and the OS is also better than the old version. If you want a very good support (soft & hard!), then you should change to MAC, but you should also be financially strong. :) -- STefan --- LED 1.00t * Origin: Greetings from ST-Mecca Germany (2:243/13.520) Message #98 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 13 Feb 91 13:35:12 From : David Thomas To : Singh Khanna Subj : Languages Singh - if you are deciding to take up programming, you don't want to be bothered with structured programming right from the start, unless you want to succeed academically. I personally like machine code (68000), have nothing against C programmers (it has it's advantages) and I program in GfA Basic as well, although not commercially. To start you off, I suggest you take the time-honoured tradition of starting with Basic (acronym for Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code - you'd never have guessed that nowadays!) I wouldn't advise learning Pascal. Also I wouldn't advise 68000, or C. Learn to walk before learning to run! Let me put it this way: All languages that are used by academics are a great deal of trouble to use. You have to do flowcharting, structured programming, and all sorts of things that just aren't done in the commercial world. I've had a program released (Licenceware) that was programmed in 68000 assembler, and if you can find a flowchart in my house describing that particular program I'll give you my ST! Of course, others will argue their points, and I suppose some of them are valid. It did take me five years to really get some good programs written, for the academics it probably takes less time. But then you have to do so much planning that at the end of the day a programmer like me can get things done quicker than many academics. I'm sure people like Steven Green (Binkleyterm ST) and Jon Webb (LHarc) who are in this conference would agree with me. Sorry I didn't reply to your netmail a while back, the reasons were many (One: I cannot send netmails at the moment, two: I put your message into a capture buffer and my ST crashed; and three: I was unable to find it again after an hour searching thru the message bases on my host BBS). I hope you realise I'm in the UK area. My address for sending Netmails to is (2:253/169) (the origin line is incorrect and I don't know how to make it correct without causing my Fido mailer of my new point to stop working yet.) But if you have any problems at all with programming, I should be able to help, esp. 68000 programming. \/D\a/v\e/\ --- LED 1.00 * Origin: An ST point with no hard disk (!) (2:253/169.1) NOT (2:7000/1) Message #124 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 16 Feb 91 17:51:56 From : David Thomas To : All Subj : STT Has anyone heard anything of this supposedly secret device, mentioned in a news item in a magazine over here? It's supposed to be under development by Atari now, and it's gonna be able to enable an ST to operate at between 15-20 MIPs, whereas a current ST runs at less than 1 MIP? It's supposed to be a transputer, but not the Atari ABAQ/ATW, this is a separate project. The most breathtaking aspect of all this is the price, between 300 pounds and 400 pounds (that's about US$600-800 for those of you that wish to convert that into your own currency). It's supposed to become available in September this year, so we can expect it at around the turn of the century (this is what normally happens ). \/D\a/v\e/\ --- LED 1.00 * Origin: An ST point with no hard disk! It's possible!! (2:253/169.1) Message #125 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 17 Feb 91 19:08:48 From : Steven Green To : David Thomas Subj : (98) Languages In a message of <13 Feb 91 13:35:12 >, David Thomas of (2:7000/1) writes: DT> I'm sure people like DT> Steven Green (Binkleyterm ST) and Jon Webb (LHarc) who are in this DT> conference would agree with me. Sort of... actually I did study software Engineering at University. Many people forget that the whole point of structured programming is to reduce developement time and reduce the possibilty of human errors, such as typos, assigning wrong data types to variables, etc, etc. Flowcharts are universally accepted as a bad thing in software engineering, they may have their use for something like illustrating data flow or the interaction between modules, but writing structured pseudo-code using Pascal like structure is much easier and more useful. I program in assembler (68000 and 80x86) for a living and use structured methodologies with this such as defining data structures, using macros, and forcing a certain level of self-documentation and using a consistent calling convention and register usage between functions. In general, using time at the beginning of a project to plan it poperly will save you a lot of time at the end stages, where a little bug may creep in because you took a shortcut at the start. I have begun to write a series of articles on taking a structured appraoch to assembly programing, perhaps you would like to read the 1st couple of chapters. - STeVeN. --- FIDOdoor-ST/TT 2.10 [Registered] * Origin: My Little Phoney, Oxford, England (2:252/25.0) Message #126 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 17 Feb 91 20:09:18 From : Steven Green To : Chris Richards Subj : Re: languages In a message of <10 Feb 91 12:25:48 >, Chris Richards of (1:286/730.1) writes: CR> Unfortunately, very few programmers are equally fluent in several CR> different computer languages, tending to stick to just one particular CR> language because "I don't have the time to invest in learning another CR> language, and this one works". This is plain stupid... the fundamental techniques are the same in whatever language you choose. If you choose a linear block structured language like Algol, Fortran, C, Pascal, Modula-2, Ada, Basic or assembler, you can learn similar languages in a couple of weeks. If you move onto the more abstract languages like Lisp, Prolog, Forth, etc, then it can take a while to get your head around the philosophy, but you can be writing real programs within a few weeks if you have learnt good programming practices with other languages. --- FIDOdoor-ST/TT 2.10 [Registered] * Origin: My Little Phoney, Oxford, England (2:252/25.0) Message #128 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 17 Feb 91 11:58:08 From : David Thomas To : Jon Webb Subj : Re: STuff In a message of <10 Feb 91 16:18:00>, Jon Webb (2:282/301.2) writes: >>> Yet I somehow was *certain* that I had read somewhere >>> that TOS will crash if there are more than 112 entries >>> in the bootsector... >> There is a problem with 112, but it is a GEM-related one. A GEN- >> window from the desktop only has 112 slots for file entries. This is >> true even for the window in the original item-selector. JW> Sorry, you're wrong. 112 is the number of file/folder/volume entries JW> the root directory of a floppy can hold. One entry is 32 bytes long, JW> there are 7 directory sectors -> (7*512)/32 = 112. JW> The number of items a GEM window and the item selector can hold JW> depends on the AES version you are running. And I can vouch for Jon there. That figure of 112 is dependent on the disk format, however. If you use any normal formatter, that's what you'll probably get, however some magazine disks here in the UK have a special format whereby single sided drive owners can access half of the stuff on the disk; to achieve that they needed to reduce the number of directory sectors to 2, I believe; leaving a maximum of 32 files or folders in the root directory. It's nothing to worry about, you can have as many programs as there is space to fit them on the disk in a subdir (folder) as far as I know... \/D\a/v\e/\ --- LED 1.00 * Origin: An ST point with no hard disk! It's possible!! (2:253/169.1) Message #153 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 17 Feb 91 12:35:00 From : Christian_Schmitz-Moormann To : Jon Webb Subj : Re: STuff > Sorry, you're wrong. 112 is the number of > file/folder/volume entries the root directory of a > floppy can hold. One entry is 32 bytes long, there are > 7 directory sectors -> (7*512)/32 = 112. > > The number of items a GEM window and the item selector > can hold depends on the AES version you are running. > I know. But when I had TOS 1.0 (long ago) and got a hard disk, I ran into exactly this problem. With TOS 1.4 the number of entries in a GEM file window has been increased to 256, I think. But I haven't tried it. No need to. Thank you for your corrections. Tschuess...CSM --- FD 1.99c via Scantoss 1.26 * Origin: Point #15 der CCB Mailbox - CSM - Und Tschuess... (2:244/8580.15) Message #154 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 17 Feb 91 12:41:00 From : Christian_Schmitz-Moormann To : Peter Kocourek Subj : Re: FSM-GDOS > CS> beta versions of FSM-GDOS are out. > > Oh??? Can it be downloaded/freqqed/just plain gotten > somewhere? Or is it just the prerogative of a Selected > Few? > Sorry, but they can be requested from ATARI by registered developers, thus a Selected Few. It shouldn't take too long (maybe Christmas 1999) until they are out for the public. I haven't got my greedy fingers on them myself. Concerning Wordflair- it's a text program that uses GDOS and GDOS-fonts. It is *quite* stable. I know of only two ways to crash it reproducibly. At least I have (not yet) crashed it irreproducibly. Knocking on wood. Tschuess...CSM --- FD 1.99c via Scantoss 1.26 * Origin: Point #15 der CCB Mailbox - CSM - Und Tschuess... (2:244/8580.15) Message #173 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 09 Feb 91 24:24:00 From : Elias Martenson To : All Subj : Sozobon C I am using Sozobon C and I'm finding this to be a very good C-complier, though, I've had one problem, and this occurs when I'm trying to port (mostly) UNIX programs. A line like this won't work: #if defined(TOS) || defined(MSDOS) ......... #endif I have also tried the #define that is supplied whith the sources for NetHack that is supposed to cure this problem whith compilers that don't accept # if defined(xx) statements, but it didn't work. :-( Anybody have a sollution, maybe a new special cpp? Or is there a new version of Sozobon C out? --- FiFo V2.1i * Origin: Poor Man's BBS +46-(0)753-68407 (2:20/260.2) ///Turbo Board (2:4000/2) Message #180 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 17 Feb 91 19:29:32 From : Konrad Hinsen To : Daniel Eriksson Subj : (83) Re: PostScript. DE> Is there anybody out there who has a program that converts Calamus- DE> documents into PostScript-files. I really need such a program DMC (the producers of Calamus) have stated several times that they consider PostScript inferior to their own output methods, so they probably won't support it. Since they also keep their document secret, you are probably out of luck. DE> urgently. Is there any other program that produces output to a DE> PostScript-file. I already know that PPM is capable of doing that, DE> but perhaps programs like Thats Write, Wordflair or Script also is DE> capable of doing that. Please answer me. If you like to write me a PPM and TimeWorks-DTP are the two DTP packages that support PostScript. Of the word processors I know, only That's Write PostScript (which is a special version) and WordPerfect can produce PostScript files. Then there is a GDOS driver, which however has lots of drawbacks and is unsuitable for daily use. If I remember correctly, Retouche Professional also supports PostScript, but you better ask 3K about that. --- LED ST 0.10 * Origin: Another Sunset Point - #3 (2:242/3.3) Message #194 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 20 Feb 91 21:02:32 From : Marco Fris To : David Thomas Subj : (99) Re: Languages > walk before learning to run! Let me put it this way: All languages > that are used by academics are a great deal of trouble to use. You > have to do flowcharting, structured programming, and all sorts of > things that just aren't done in the commercial world. I do, structured programming and even a flowchart or two for complicated things. In fact, I always make a crude flowchart on the back of an envelope before starting to code, and I still get paid! --- ComScan v1.02 TB/ST * Origin: ATARI ST QuickBBS Haarlem ++31-(0)23-340077 HST/V32 (2:281/202) Message #197 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 20 Feb 91 21:03:26 From : Marco Fris To : Chris Richards Subj : Re: languages > Unfortunately, very few programmers are equally fluent in several > different computer languages, tending to stick to just one particular > language because "I don't have the time to invest in learning another > language, and this one works". You wouldn't believe how many times I > have heard this from programmers here in the states. It seems like > very few people (at least in the states) actually pride themselves on > their work enough to take the time to use the language best suited to > the task at hand. (In other words, they are lazy.) > I wouldn't call it lazy. 'learning a language' isn't just learning and practicing a bit, you'll probably need a year or so working with it to really come to terms with it. That's a large investment, in money and time. Also, every language forces you towards it's own type of solutions. It's not that easy to switch your way of thinking. I've seen some C where it was quite visible the author was a COBOL programmer. Groetjes, - M - --- ComScan v1.02 TB/ST * Origin: ATARI ST QuickBBS Haarlem ++31-(0)23-340077 HST/V32 (2:281/202) Message #203 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 15 Feb 91 00:54:00 From : Michael Brandt To : Adi Gabbai Subj : Re: OCR (Optical Character Recognition) There is a new Program called "SYNTEX" You can get a Demoversion it is without the Dongle. It is a full version but without the Dongle it is much slower than with it (Factor 10) Adress Hans Richter Distributor Hagener Strasse 65 D 5820 Gevelsberd --- LED ST 0.10 [BYE 0.26] * Origin: The best forget the rest (2:248/15.2) Message #212 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 21 Feb 91 17:38:40 From : Rene Kint To : Jon Webb Subj : LHarc 0.60 vs MiNT & MGR Hello, Jon. I know, maybe I should tell you this through the netmail, or maybe in the Dutch ST area, but as I think maybe more people could have this problem I decided to tell you in ATARIST. It seems that somehow 0.60 can't work together with MiNT/MGR. As soon as I open a MGR-window and start to work with Lharc 0.60, MiNT has a little surprise for me: Illegal System Call. The Yoshi-Lharc doesn't have this problem...I can easily work with it under MiNT/MGR an do other things with my ST while it is working.. Does 0.60 execute any 'obscure' calls, such as GEM-stuff? If it does, could you please take them out? De mazzel, Rene! --- ComScan v1.02 BT/ST * Origin: Rene! WeSTpoint Amsterdam The Netherlands. (2:280/220.6) Message #215 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 19 Feb 91 16:25:42 From : David Thomas To : Steven Green Subj : (125) Re: Languages Hi Steven, For me, programming is more of a paying hobby, really. I'm still currently in education; I've got about three years to go at Uni starting this summer before I get released to the real world!! SG> I have begun to write a series of articles on taking a structured SG> appraoch to assembly programing, perhaps you would like to read the SG> 1st couple of chapters. Sounds interesting... I wouldn't mind. Are they electronic? If so, are they requestable from your board? (I think I can set BINK up to request from your board, even though I don't have a nodelist.) SG> I think many people forget that the whole point of structured SG> programming is to reduce developement time and reduce the possibilty SG> of human errors, such as typos, assigning wrong data types to Right, I'd definitely like to have a look at some of those chapters; I never knew anything about reducing development time with structures. I always thought they were just to make some areas of code more legible. SG> Flowcharts are universally accepted as a bad thing in software SG> engineering, they may have their use for something like illustrating I'm certainly glad that not all academic circles believe that flowcharting is the icing on the cake. When I sat Computer Studies GCSE, I failed (well, got a C.. that's a failure to me) because of all this flowcharting. I've never succeeded well academically in computing, only practically (i.e. getting programs written). I'll never sit another computing course again. (Admittedly, if I did I'd probably be bored out of my mind most of the time, due to the fact that I'm already a quite reasonable programmer.) SG> In general, using time at the beginning of a project to plan it SG> poperly will save you a lot of time at the end stages, where a little SG> bug may creep in because you took a shortcut at the start. Why yes, I agree. I'm not the type that simply rushes onto a machine to get something done. All I'm saying is it's possible to overdo it, esp. if you go into flowcharts. I've never held to structures in my programs; my progs have had a modular layout. I definitely don't like rigidly imposed structures in most BASICs nowadays; I find that occasionally a GOTO is necessary. For example, take the following case: You're writing a BBS program, and you've got to keep putting DO, IF carrier detect still present THEN ..., IF carrier detect still present THEN ..., IF carrier detect still present THEN ..., ENDIF, ENDIF, ENDIF, LOOP your program is longer, more inefficient, more time consuming, and I do believe harder to understand than one that occasionally has IF NOT carrier detect present THEN GOTO initialise, or has that as an interrupt routine. It's also rather time consuming, actually writing the code in the first place. (Perhaps I've got the wrong idea about structured programming, but as far as I know, that's all there is to it. I'd like to see a professional programmer's views on the subject.) Thanx -- \/D\a/v\e/\ --- LED 1.00 * Origin: An ST point with no HD in sight! It's possible!! (2:253/169.1) Message #228 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 19 Feb 91 12:37:14 From : Bertrand Petit To : Peter Kocourek Subj : (64) Re: LZH In a message of <15 Feb 91 20:34:18>, Peter Kocourek (2:281/505.2) writes: PK> --- admittedly very fast, but I'd like to be able to pack LZHives too, PK> and preferable to shut it up, so that no messages are displayed on- PK> screen during packing. PK> Aiuta me, prego! :-) Try this command line: LHARC a -h \toto \tmp\*.* ^ ^ ^ ^ | | | | | | | +- Files to add to .LZH file | | +------- .LZH file | +----------- Hold on packing completion +------------- Add command This _must_ work with lharc v1.1316 and newers ones. Bertrand PETIT alias >Elrond le demi-Elfe< --- LED 1.00 * Origin: IMLADRIS the house of the Elves -- Paris, France (2:320/100.7) Message #345 on 'European Atari Echo' Date : 20 Feb 91 15:28:43 From : Frank Toal To : Gfa Pi3 Guy Subj : GFA Solution ' Frank Toal 19th Feb 91 ' PROCEDURE pi3 DIM ts%(8192) ! Reserve space for temporary screen tp%=V:ts%(0) ! Temp Screen pointer a$=CHR$(0)+CHR$(2)+CHR$(7)+CHR$(&H77)+ STRING$(30,0) ! Degas PI3 Header BMOVE V:a$,tp%,34 ! Move Degas PI3 Header to Temp Screen BMOVE XBIOS(2),tp%+34,32000 ! Move current screen to Temp screen BSAVE "\XXX.PI3",tp%,32066 ! Save as *.PI3 ERASE ts%() ! Free up space again RETURN --- Opus-CBCS 1.14 * Origin: Scottish Opus, Glasgow [Line1, 041 880 7863] (2:259/2.0) ---===< * >===---