'penguin...' possible positions
Thursday, 11-Nov-1999 16:25:33
194.78.235.47 writes:
Here is the list of possible position (starting at offset 0) for 'REDPENGUINFRENZY' :
9*, 13*, 15, (33)*, 41, 43, 45, 47, 49, (69)*, 79*, 81, 83, 91, 93, 95, 97, 99, 101, 105, 107, 107, 117*, 121, (125)*, 127, 133,
137, 139, 141, 145, 147, 149.
The set of 8 rules is checked with the letter 'E' with a initial set of 'UF' and the letter D with a initial set of 'BG'. Those marked
with * don't pass the same rule with a letter N and a initial set of 'BG'. Those in () don't pass the rule with N and a set 'UF'.
Btw, this list is not much different from the one Tx posted a few days ago.
I'll start checking this list from the beginning. If someone want to check it too, why not starting from the end ? :)
Seeker, about that 122 for 'beware', I think i could probably build a matrix for 5 out of the 8 digrams, but no more :(
last news : position 45, 47, 49 may be skipped, they give inconsistencies with repeating digrams (use first the visual aid of Tx
:)
Well, I'll probably won't check them all today, so, good luck to everyone :)
later,
Laurent
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guns are loaded
Thursday, 11-Nov-1999 16:31:18
62.156.30.227 writes:
Bah, first read 'possible solution'
Thanx for the positions. Just what I wated to say : gonna start with the last.
Thanx to your wife for additional help, she is free to take the first part of the baked penguin.
the seeker
BTW : anybody else out here ?
The Seeker
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Re: guns are loaded
Thursday, 11-Nov-1999 18:12:46
194.78.234.46 writes:
Hi seeker,
not done all possibilities yet, but the 83 seems a good one to me. Don't be happy yet ... I did not got a full working matrix :( If
you have some time left, maybe you could drop an eye on that 83.
Moreover there is a post below of Dan which propose the same position. I posted to ask him more details ... I hope he will
read it :)
going to bed now .... more tomorrow,
Night,
Laurent.
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Re: hey ya all; lets back up a minute
Thursday, 11-Nov-1999 20:43:21
216.224.144.210 writes:
...I decided to go from scratch
went to make sure that the code we are using is the real thing...that seems to check out...
okay but re-read this:
To: Col. Tiltman, Bletchley Park
This message was received by an intercept station in
Scotland. The frequency and format indicate that it is a most
urgent message from one of our agents who landed a week
ago in Norway. His controllers have been unable to read it.
Although it clearly uses his backup cipher, the Playfair, the
keys assigned to him do not work.
(His controllers have been unable to read it.)
(...the
keys assigned to him do not work.)
this code does not work for us because it does not work for them either...the guy made a mistake somewhere...
and then there is this:
............
In case it helps, he is carrying materials to
assist a previously dropped team in their work regarding the
Norsk Hydro facility at Rjukan.
the word Rjukan...
...has a j in it.....could he somehow have screwed up the message because of this 'j' ?
just some thoughts... but it would seem that the contest points out that his handelers could not break the code sent by
him...it also mentions Scotland...did he himself come from Scotland... to Norway..and do scots spell one of the words in this
code (particularly the ones we've been given) differently than we anticipate...?
I am pretty certain there must be a mistake somewhere and when found this will be our answer/s...
what do u think?
jeff
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Re: addittion
Thursday, 11-Nov-1999 20:58:34
216.224.144.210 writes:
...if the keys assigned to him do not work
then the only words we can depend upon
are
Stop and end
???
jeff
*******************
Re: Re: addittion perhaps
Thursday, 11-Nov-1999 21:40:34
216.224.144.210 writes:
...he forgot
got drunk
got scared
was confused
and wrote:
beware red weasels
and/or
ice penguins frenzy
hehehe;
jeff
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Re: Re: Re: addittion perhaps
Thursday, 11-Nov-1999 22:47:01
216.224.144.210 writes:
or
beware ice penguins
or
red weasels frenzy
or
:)
good night; yawn cya tommororo
jeff
***********************
Re: Re: Re: Re: addittion perhaps
Friday, 12-Nov-1999 00:59:04
193.159.109.110 writes:
Hi Jeff,
good guesses. Could be true, but no good idea if we should have to check them all.
Theory of the moment :
Agent got caught, has to sent a message which the ennemies wrote up for him. The only thing he could convince them is :
'recognition code == red penguin frenzy'. It could be a message like 'send all the troops here or there, so he used a wrong
keyword to avoid any action.
thanks anyway. Hope your guesses are NOT correct
the seeker
********************
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: addittion perhaps
Friday, 12-Nov-1999 11:29:59
216.224.148.138 writes:
hiya morning
well that sounds awful complicated in itself;
the enemy would be standing over my shoulder watching as i encripted thier message;
so if I wanted for this enemy disinformation (i am being forced to write and send) to never be broken ...I would change the
code so that my handelers could never figure it out...
in that case scenario....then this piece of code is not breakable and is gibberish...
but we know because it is a contest that this would not be the case...it can be broken...easily they say...
...so following this line of thought if I were to send a message to my handelers under duress that I wanted them to OPEN it I
would simply leave out ABSOLUTELY both of my recognition codes so they would dismiss this message as
un-authenticated...in this way anything the enemy forced me to send I would know would Not be accepted...but we know the
handelers were not able to open it...
but if I did not change the code purposely... and am being forced to write an enemy paper...with them looking over my
shoulder of course...and I am aware that this code will be opened by my own side...then the insertion of red penquine frenzy
does not warn the handelers that this message is being force written by the enemy...and will not alert them that this
message is a trap...
it would be very difficult under these circumstances for me sitting there to be able in my mind (because I would not be able to
do it on paper that they would see me writting
to change their disinformational message:
Troops moving into zone 51 on Saturday morning...
to
Captured by enemy stop this message is a trap
this would mean he'd have to be inventing a completely different sqaure setting it up to be possibly a rectangel Outside of the
enemys rectangel message...this he would not do because they would not look for a hidden message after unencoding the
first.....and this is in no way 'easy'...in any case the enemy message is the one that would go thru and not his own...and the
fact that the enemy was watching him encript would not allow for any of this anyway...
....and all this, if possible, would be much more complicated than its layed out to be...and not easy
.....sigh
because "en" and "er" do not repeat anywhere to allow filling in the gaps; nor 'ew' and 'we' for a reversal...I still think he must
have made a spelling error; or reversed the wording of weasels and penguine...
just some thoughts; as u say i am probably way off base....but isn't this just as fun visulizing all this then popping the code
easily 3 days ago? :)
jeff
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: addittion clarification please
Friday, 12-Nov-1999 12:09:41
216.224.148.138 writes:
several messages indicated by my having dropped
the first letter that this did not work because it produced double letters...like I think it was ff and ss or ll
what is the significance of this?
I ask because the original message has a double ff in the first line...?
jeff
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Re:never mind
Friday, 12-Nov-1999 12:12:01
216.224.148.138 writes:
my notes are so many and so screwed up...never mind above question...I see now the ff is in my dropped version...hummm
back to drawing board
jeff
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correction
Friday, 12-Nov-1999 12:34:29
193.158.173.32 writes:
Well, rather unimportant, but the plot could be :
agent got caught, they tel him the message to send, they accept his 'code name' (red penguin frenzy) BUT they do not know
his cipher text (like 'manchester'). Maybe weak story, but that's what you can see in (almost) every movie.
the seeker
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Re: addition
Friday, 12-Nov-1999 12:41:34
216.224.148.138 writes:
...have u noticed in most of these messages of that time period that they did not use the word 'stop'
they ended the sentence rather with an "X"
???
jeff
***********************
Re: Re: addition
Friday, 12-Nov-1999 15:56:54
193.158.164.125 writes:
Hi Jeff,
I'm online again (but just 3 minutes) - duty is calling :(
BUT :
they said, he uses STOP after sentences, so I believe this. Can't be more than 3 STOPs - WRONG : can be more 3 times
TO and once ST and once OP.
gotta run / where's the tea ??
regards
the seeker
********************
Re: help needed please
Friday, 12-Nov-1999 21:14:52
208.128.132.37 writes:
lesson 17
I don't get whatever they are doing here; I don't see the pattern; each seems to be differently built; help?
It is necessary to take each set of these pair
equalities and establish the position of the four
letters with respect to each other. They must conform to
the above three rules for row, column, and rectangle.
The six different sets of pairs of know equalities are
set up:
1 2 3 4 5
er = DZ on = SQ ed = DY ay = BA en = AQ
------ ------- ------ ------- -------
E D R Z O S N Q E D Y Y A B E A N Q
D S D A A
R E D N O S Y B N E A
Z Z R Q Q N Q Q N
for instancee I was gona try to use this type thing to build every sentence...such as
be wa re ic ew ea se ls
AL EW RP FY WL HU LD AR
1 2 3
be=al wa=ew
----- -----
b a e l
a
e
l
......any help on what pattern theey are using above
thanks
jeff
*****************+
Your question
Saturday, 13-Nov-1999 01:42:04
62.157.21.11 writes:
Hi Jeff,
this is what they mean :
ER (plain) will be DZ (cipher) or vice versa (in their example)
You have (not always) 3 possibilities to arrange them :
1. E d R z horicontal
2. vertical
E
d
R
z
3. rectangl e
E d
z R
they put these 3 possibilities in one grid, but this grid they show for every ..=.. is NOTour 5x5-grid. It's just for overview.
And take care with the rectangles !
It could be (for example)
z R
E d
too. And you don't know how much EMPTY rows/cols are between them.
In the next step, they try to built up the real grid. Maybe their way works for them, I more prefere my own scheme.
regards
the seeker
***************+
****************
Links to crypto software
Friday, 12-Nov-1999 03:17:12
62.156.30.138 writes:
http://samsara.law.cwru.edu/comp_law/jvd/cryptolinks.html
the seeker
*******************
Playfair.C
Friday, 12-Nov-1999 03:27:06
193.158.174.41 writes:
/* Playfair encryption and decryption */
/*
All non-alphabetics in the input text are silently ignored, as is
the final odd character if any. Converting the keyword to the
keysquare is done in the traditional manner of dropping repeats and
completing the square with unused letters in alphabetical order,
despite its relative insecurity. Hey, this is a toy cipher!
Anyway, you can always give a keyword of 26 letters in your desired
order. The direction of en/decryption is seet by dir: >0 means
encrypt, <=0 means decrypt. The input text is always *pt, the
output is *ct. The code has been written for transparency more
than efficiency. I repeat, this is a toy cipher.
Copyright (c) 1994 by PC Leyland, pcl@ox.ac.uk
Permission is granted to make any use of this code as you feel
fit,as long as you give me credit for writing it and do not blame
me for any bugs you may introduce. I take no responsibility
whatsoever for any bugs I may have introduced.
*/
void playfair (int dir, char *key, char *pt, char *ct)
{
char *alph = "ABCDEFGHIKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ";
char keycopy[25], pt0, pt1;
char *ptcopy = ct;
int i, j, k, lk, lp, rpt0, rpt1, cpt0, cpt1;
int alphabet [25], row[25], col[25];
for (i = 0; i < 25; i++) alphabet[i] = -1;
lk = strlen (key);
j = 0;
for (i = 0; i < lk; i++)
{
k = toupper (key[i]);
if (!isalpha (k)) continue;
if (k == 'J') k = 'I';
k = strchr (alph, k) - alph;
if (alphabet[k] != -1) continue; /* Repeat char */
alphabet[k] = j;
keycopy[j++] = alph[k];
}
for (i = 0; i < 25; i++)
{
if (alphabet[i] == -1)
{
alphabet[i] = j;
keycopy[j++] = alph[i];
}
}
for (i = 0; i < 25; i++)
{
row[i] = alphabet[i] / 5;
col[i] = alphabet[i] % 5;
}
/*
* Copy plain text, stripping out non-alphabetics and converting to
* uppercase. Use ct as the buffer, but will use ptcopy as the name.
*/
j = 0;
lp = strlen (pt);
for (i = 0; i < lp; i++)
if (isalpha (pt[i]))
ptcopy [j++] = toupper (pt[i]);
lp = j;
if (lp & 1)
{ /* Odd length plaintext. Warn and truncate */
fprintf (stdout,
"Odd number of characters in pt -- ignoring last.\n");
lp--;
}
ptcopy[lp] = '\0';
for (i = 0; i < lp; i += 2)
{
pt0 = strchr (alph, ptcopy[i]) - alph;
pt1 = strchr (alph, ptcopy[i+1]) - alph;
cpt0 = col[pt0];
cpt1 = col[pt1];
rpt0 = row[pt0];
rpt1 = row[pt1];
if (pt0 == pt1)
{
if (dir > 0)
{
ct[i] = ct[i+1] = keycopy[(cpt0 + 5 * rpt0 + 1) % 25];
}
else
{
ct[i] = ct[i+1] = keycopy[(cpt0 + 5 * rpt0 + 24) % 25];
}
}
else
if (rpt0 == rpt1)
{
if (dir > 0)
{
ct[i] = keycopy[(cpt0+1) % 5 + 5 * rpt0];
ct[i+1] = keycopy[(cpt1+1) % 5 + 5 * rpt1];
}
else
{
ct[i] = keycopy[(cpt0+4) % 5 + 5 * rpt0];
ct[i+1] = keycopy[(cpt1+4) % 5 + 5 * rpt1];
}
}
else
if (cpt0 == cpt1)
{
if (dir > 0)
{
ct[i] = keycopy[cpt0 + 5 * ((rpt0 + 1) % 5)];
ct[i+1] = keycopy[cpt1 + 5 * ((rpt1 + 1) % 5)];
}
else
{
ct[i] = keycopy[cpt0 + 5 * ((rpt0 + 4) % 5)];
ct[i+1] = keycopy[cpt1 + 5 * ((rpt1 + 4) % 5)];
}
}
else
{
ct[i] = keycopy[cpt1 + 5 * rpt0];
ct[i+1] = keycopy [cpt0 + 5 * rpt1];
}
}
}
The Seeker
*****************
going to try bruteforce, seeker ? (n/t) (Laurent)
****************
NO, just additional info (n/t) (The Seeker)
****************+
****************
97 == NOPE
Friday, 12-Nov-1999 07:46:03
193.158.164.188 writes:
Had some free minutes for gridding :
97 == DEAD
?R ED PE NG UI NF RE NZ Y?
MU RU OL HR YL LO TW FY LD
because :
PE --> OL :
P O
L E
(maybe P O E L / or vertical)
BUT :
NF --> LO
F O
L N
===> rectangle L O either with P E *OR* with O N F
So : 97 == impossible
Any improvements welcome
the seeker
BTW : wholelotta traffic on the mb, but less contributions !
The Seeker
*******************
BTW : why 107==twice in your list, Laurent ? (n/t) (The Seeker)
***************
91=93=95=97=99=101 = NOPE
Friday, 12-Nov-1999 08:28:32
62.156.30.57 writes:
93 AND 95 AND 97 AND 99 == NADA
always same reason : OL <--> LO --> problem
101 == dead
?R ED PE NG UI NF RE NZ Y?
OL HR YL LO TW FY LD IC VL
a. ED = HR
E H
R D
b. combine with RE = LD
no rectangle possible (look above), vert/hori :
E H D R : no rectangle possible, hor. impossible
improvements welcome
someone else chexk this please, I am getting tired
the seeker
****************
sorry, typo error ... second 107 must be read as 109
Friday, 12-Nov-1999 12:03:21
195.238.19.192 writes:
But I don't think this 109 would be the solution. Who know ?
I have not done much today (strange how customers start thinking they need something for the next week just on the last
friday).
I think we really tried already -almost- all possible position for our different keywords, and nothing came up. Like you, I'm
trying to understand why those guys couldn't decipher it.
I have been thinking about that 'stop' too (you did also i think seeker), ST and OP are 2 following letters in the alphabet. So
there is chance that at least one of those pair are on the same line in the grip. I tried some things with that, but no results.
Also, I can't believe there is only 3 sentence in that message. we already have 2 sentence with our 'weasels' and 'penguin'.
So, there would be only one other sentence ? hard to believe, but we proved it :(
Now I am trying to work on those letter and digram frequency. I found
Laurent
****************
part 2:)
Friday, 12-Nov-1999 12:10:27
195.238.19.192 writes:
Sorry guys,
I hit submit by error :)
anyway, I was saying that i'm now looking at those frequency tables. I found a good paper explaining it, but unfortunately it's
in french and the frequencies are different than in english so i have to adapt it a bit.
I don't know where this will lead, but see you at the end ... I hope so :)
Respects to all those decrypters around,
Laurent.
laurent
*****************
another song of hope
Friday, 12-Nov-1999 12:30:29
193.158.173.32 writes:
maybe totally wrong, but this sentence with the 'FA CI LI TY'. Hmmm.
It seems that my whole world is turning to two-block-ciphers ! HE LP :-))
the seeker
*******************
Re: part 2:)
Friday, 12-Nov-1999 12:39:13
208.214.188.9 writes:
Tu devrais poster l'article ici :) Les frequences sont un peu moins interessantes pour le projet en cours, mais je suis certain
que ca va me servir ailleurs ;)
-Tx
******************
Re: Re: part 2:)
Friday, 12-Nov-1999 12:47:31
216.224.148.138 writes:
well hey if we want to playfair
then look at 'iu' in penguin
and 'iu' in Rjukan....the j would be an
"I" wouldn't it? heheh....okay back to work u slaggerts...secret aaaaaaaaaagent man...I am also noticing in many of the war
messages I have read that they end the sentence with an "X" and not the word 'stop'.....?
*************************
sorry, not online :(
Friday, 12-Nov-1999 13:08:06
195.238.19.192 writes:
Hi Tx ... oops, bonjour Tx, :)
DesolĪ, mais c'est d'un livre dont je parles. Je ne sais pas si il se trouve sur le net. Le titre est 'ABC de cryptographie' de R.
Roubaty au editions Masson. Je ne sais pas ce qu'il vaut mais il y a quelques pages sur la cryptanalyse de playfair.
For our non-french speaking friends, Tx wanted to know where i found that paper i talk about somewhere else. Unfortunately,
it's not an 'online' paper, but rather a book. sorry :(
later,
Laurent
*******************
'm just a tiny part of the traffic ;-)
Friday, 12-Nov-1999 11:51:45
194.138.158.162 writes:
following your ideas. None of my own...
Well, maybe?
The original encrypted message was laid out in series of five letters, perhaps some of these series just form the matrix?
I tried isolating some, starting with the letter Q (only once in whole msg), but I always get some repetitions, bad news.
Who knows, perhaps anyone else is able to see some light in the original format?
DQ
*******************
5 fingers are a feast !
Friday, 12-Nov-1999 12:25:35
193.158.173.32 writes:
Hi DQ,
welcome at the cipher-front ! Bad news indeed, as far as I read, those 5-letter-blocks were the common use for their ciphers :(
Looking for some candle too !
the seeker
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