| From: | Matt Sealey |
| Date: | 23 Apr 2001 at 15:25:50 |
| Subject: | Re: Common misconception (was Re: Voyager Image Decoders) |
Hello No_good@jgen.fsnet.co.uk
On 23-Apr-01, you wrote:
> --- In amigactive@y..., Matt Sealey <matt@k...> wrote:
>
>> And have Ralph slag *me* off? No thanks. It's pretty easy to work
>> out why though, unless you're eternally stupid.
>
> OK here come the insults....*sigh* There really isn't one is there?
> come on admit it. Unless you just made a wild guess.
Isn't one what? A good reason? Of course there is. I've already
mentioned it already in previous posts. I'm hinting enough at it
(come on, why WOULD Ralph be pissed at Amiga?)
I'm not going to link the two FOR you.
>> I don't think it's anything so complex as that. Just the guy
>> writing the article was a certifiable moron :P
>
> You missed the point of my comment (like you do quite often), and in
> coe the insults again. Just becuase he doesn't worship the ground
> that the Vapor team walk on doesn't mean that that he is a moron.
He doesn't need to worship any ground, he just needs to have acknowledged
that the thing he was so derisory about - the lack of Flash plugins for
browsers on the Amiga, and the lamenting of this fact and burdening of
it onto browser authors etc. - was pure and simple misinformed rubbish.
How can you pledge to be a journalist, or write an article of any sort, and
get the facts so wrong? It's like proving some odd physics equation years
after they negated it's worth with Quantum Mechanics.
>> PowerUP belonged to phase5. When phase5 died while it was still in
>> pretty much active development, it became the property of the
>> author.
>
> So why didn't the suit continue?
Dead companies can't sue.
> The old 7 year old "they started it" chesnut..... The fact H&P
> stopped bitching, but MOS carried on. Why didn't Ralph prove beyond
> reasonable doubt that it was the best solution, why didn't he fight
> the decision, rather than going straight to the forums and start
> bitching?
Because there's no fighting when the people you fight are idiots. There's
just the circular argument, and the supposition that both are doing the
better job.
The fact that Ralph is doing a proven better job on his own now.. well,
that's proof enough isn't it? I don't know, writing a microkernel and
AmigaOS emulation layer, porting multiple components to PPC native
solutions, bringing up support from large companies (Titan, EPIC,
VFD) and codeshops (Vapor, SASG)..
.. what did H&P ever do? Redistribute illegal software and code in-house
crap like ArtEffect. I'm so glad I actually won the damn thing, because I
certainly would NOT have bought it.
> They're good enough to do more in a year than any other company since
> Commodore. They're good enough to raise the cash to buy the company.
> Do you really think that it'd be that simple? They wanted to leave
> the legacy of Amiga classic behind, not the technology, but the
> bitching.
They did WHAT in a year since Commodore? Gateway produced their
Amiga last year, it morphed into the AOLObjects box. The work was
WELL underway, almost to completion. You just never saw it.
So, Amiga brought out an SDK - which is now technically useless
given current plans - and it wasn't even using any in-house Amiga
technology. The same developer kit could well have come out of Tao
at any time (and actually probably did, Amiga just boxed it and wrote
some manuals)
>> Yes, because they'd just mis-handle it. It's still too late a
> solution as it
>> is, a year ago AmigaOS 4.0 would have been a good idea. Now? It's
>> added 18 months to their final product's release date and is a damn
>> shift in strategy from "content" to "home servers".
>
> No it hasn't. The DE is a seperate project.
AmigaOS 5.0 is the integration of a 64-bit PPC native AmigaOS with
the AmigaDE components. AmigaDE is a seperate entity, but the integration
could have been done by now.
>> with an abusive and obnoxious people writing their kernel, I fail to
>> see how Haage & Partner would make a better choice - one man,
>> versus the Haage family, Haeusser, Sam Jordan.. :P
>
> LOL!! abusive or obnoxious in public? I think you should remember
> the postings on moobunny I refered to earlier. If you want people to
>> Vision Factory Development. DCE. bPlan. Vapor. Oh.. wait.. they're
>> all IN the MOS group. :P
>
> Doesn't inspire confidence does it. I can imagine people approaching
> him with ideas, but instead of saying I don't think that'll work in
> MOS, or that's not really a good idea, he'd go:-
>
> *sigh* you're a stupid moron.
No, he'd go "yes, that's a great idea, you go and do it, I've made a
developer kit and whatever, you didn't even need to ask unless you
wanted help. More (-fos) power to you! :P"
But H&P and aligned developers have a tendency to not say "I want
to implement this" or "this would be a good idea", they have a tendency
to email him and say "WHY DON'T YOU SUPPORT WARPOS!?! THIS IS
BROKEN! FIX THIS! WILD ASSUMPTION ABOUT HOW IT ALL WORKS!!"
which is annoying at best.
>>> If Amiga dropped Hyperion then they'd be stupid. They're far to
>>> valuable to the amiga community.
>>
>> No more valuable than they are to the Mac community. What do they
>> do, perchance? Games.. 3D drivers.. they could be dropped, someone
>> else could just as well write them.
>
> Are you refering to MOS's well, know 3D API? Oh no, they don't have
> one, but anyone can do it!
They have Rave - an API well used on the Macintosh - and OpenGL
support. Granted, not PPC native, but nonetheless.
Warp3D works fine on MorphOS.
> here. Compared to the rest of the shite the the amiga games industry
> (if you can call it that) put out (not payback of course).
They do good work, they just have bad friends.
>> I think you'll find Ralph is quite strategically positioned such that
>> many people Amiga rely on are quite good friends with him, and
>> that many people would love to work with are good friends with
>> him enough to hold the same viewpoints on who they'd work with.
>
> So it's a case of you can work with me if you agree with everything I
> say. There is a small group of people that he may have problems
> with, and that's his potential userbase (i.e. the people that it
> generally treats like simpletons)
>
>> ...and the other has just a hobby, and no updates in a year or two..
>
> The same proffesional vs. hobbiest thing can be applied to H&P versus
> MOS.
Ralph is a professional coder, it's not a hobby project. This is his project.
It's just short of being OEM bundled with bPlan boards. That's not hobby
projectism.
> Not is as far as bplan are concerned at least publically. last time I
> looked Amiga had been completly removed off of the website.
Ask yourself why?
>> You kinda get a feeling for how eternally pissed off they are at the
>> situation..
>
> But who from the other side do you ever talk to? How about how
> ordinary users are pissed off at the situation? Oh but users are
> scum aren't they?
Ordinary users don't know anything about the situation, so in effect
they are "scum", as you put it. It's hard to discuss stuff like that without
breaking all kinds of laws.
>> .. and their being pissed off IMO is perfectly justified - being
> someone
>> who would choose the technology solution over creating the perfect
>> Communist Develoloper Group (help everyone else for free, help your
>> government for free, get no rewards.. does that sound good? :)
>
> THERE ISN'T ENOUGH USERS LEFT! CAN'T YOU COUNT OR SOMETHING? A
> unified solution would make sense.
Thee AREN'T enough users left. Can't you spell or something?
A unified solution would make sense if the unified solution was more
capable of producing. Eighteen men and one woman can only produce
1 baby every 9 months. As for what they'd all do in that time, well
there are only so many holes.. :P
Why would bringing more men in improve matters? :)
> I like morphOS, I'd rather had that instead of something H&P would
> come up with, however, I can see why Amiga would be worried about
> dropping everyone else just for one person.
Yes, but I can't see why Amiga would be worried to drop one company
(who are expendable by Amiga's admission) for one person and a quicker
development time and a better product.
The loss of Haage & Partner from any input into OS direction is NOT a
huge loss. They make applications, that's their supposed forté.
> potential users off by behaving like children.
More fool the users. On the other hand, people use Microsoft products don't
they? There's a fine line between necessity and want. I believe MorphOS is
a necessity, and whatever you get back (maybe a sly jab from Ralph once
in a while) doesn't make MorphOS any less technically excellent or somehow
unsuitable for the job.
> The more and more crap I hear comming from that one perticular camp
> the more and more I sympathise with Amiga.
The funny thing is that Amiga, quite rightly, couldn't give a shit what
either camp do as long as they get a product. The funny thing is that
this conflicts with the fact that they chose the longer, more rocky,
more troubles, less stable, less satisfying route.
Why? Because Fleecy likes to have friends around him more than he
likes to have skilled, intelligent, hardworking individuals, and doesn't
like to make sacrifices.
Thanks
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