to license it to anybody who felt that they had a need for it, and if they refused such a license, it wouid then be stripped of its copyright protection. That's because Japan feels that it has a strong competitive advantage in che manuFacture and sale of hardware, bur ~hey feel like chey're years behind in the development of software, and frankly what they really wanted to do WaS strip the advantage that other nations had in the development of software from them so tbat they couid rake it if they wanted to use it. The dissennination of informanon as a free object is a vvorthy goal, it's che way most of us learned in ehe first place But the truch of the matter is, what people are doing has more and more commercial value and if there's any vvay for people to make money off of it, somebody's gonna uy to get an angle on it. So I chink that it ought to be up to the people who design the product whether or not they want to give it avvay or sell it. It's their product and it shouid be a personal decision. BILL ATKINSON tauthor of MACPAINT, the landmark groph~ies progrom on the Macintosh): Sometimes it's not even money. When I was ~vorking on QUICKDRAW I came across some improvements, rezi good algoritUms, that l'd never seen before that I would love to tell lots of people about. because I think they're really neat hacks. And yet, I want to see Apple araund in twenty years. It's not money for me; theyrre not paying me money to not talk about QUICKDRAW. I jusr know there's something there that gives Plac an advantage over an IBM PC and I don't really want to see IBM rip off QUICKDRAW. I don't. (oppbuSe) ANDREW FL1JEGELMAN: The problem is jost dis- tr~bution. There's been no thing on Earth so easy to distribute to poople as software. The reason tbet we gO OUt and pay five or ten or twenty thousand dollars for a car is berause you need a key to dnve it and it's usually sitting behind a fence at the dealer's showroom. The hct is that no matter how hard we work on some- thing, how n~uch inspiration or insight we put into it, Hackers . _~ =m ~-. ~ ~ ~Y~= ~ ~ Ä F~^ ``When I was working on QUICKDRAW I came across some improvements, real good algorithms, that I wouid love to tell lots of poople about, because I think they're really neat hacks. And yet, 51 I want to see Apple around in 20 years. I just know there's some- thing there that g'.ves Mac an advaneage over an IBh1 PC and I - don'e really want to see IBM rip off QUICKDRAW. I don't." ~~ - __~: ~_ _ - . ~ ~ -;~t, L'_ ;~, ~ ~ __' F. ~ (, once ic's completed, in ~he medium in which we work, it's a trivial marter to make a perfect copy and give it to anybody in the world, instantly. That's what's been chaltenging us. It has nothing to do wieh whether it's easier or harder co make cars or write programs. TEC) KAEHLER (programmer at Xerox PARCÄPalo Alto Reseorch Center) Do you think it's reasonable, thraugh the scheme you're using to support Freeware, tbat everyone in chis roem couid be making a living tbat way7 FWEGELb1ANI I reaily don'r know. I did it just as a giggie. The reason I srarted ~vas because l'd finishad this program, I was gonna send it out, and I knew that I didn't have a prayer of coming up with a copy-protection scheme tbat some kid in San Diego wasn't genna break the first night, 50 I figured i've gotta work with the system somebow. KAEHLER: You must know sornething about whether or not this many people could be doing tbat. FLUEGELMAN: I think maybe, if a lot of people were willing to put out what I would call fnlly supported pro- grams. That means not jost something tbet gets the job done for you, which is wha: I did in the first round, but one that is error-uapped, diat is documented, tbet is supported, tbat looks like it's been given all those tra~ pings of velue. Then maybe you can appeal to people's sense of value and they'll contribute for it. It's wc~rked for me. I know it's worked for Bob and for a few others. DOUG GARR journalist from Omni): Could you tell us how the economics of Freeware vvorks7 FLUEGELMAhl. I send out the program and I ask for a $35 contriLution, which for a progrum of its type man' people say is one-fifth the cost of what t;hey'd expect to spend commercially. So it's a bargain to begin with. I encou.~ge people to make copies. I try and dis- cou.~-age people from re-selling the p ogram and large corpo~tions Irom making thousands of copies. I tell poople tbet whether they liked it or not' give it tro a friend and i~ their friend likes it '.hen maybe they'll send me some money. I wouid guess tbat about one-tenth of th`~poople who are using the pr=gram now have paid for it, and there are a lot of commercial software companies that cen'~; make that claim. (hagt~terj STEVEN LEVY: There's someone hex who's suppo.~- ing a program that doesn~t ask for money. Dennis Broche.~, do you want to tell us about MACTEP and what you've done thex? D~NNIS BROTHERS: It s kind of a strange situation. I wrote it for my own use. I needed a communica~tions program for ~he Macinto~. so I w`.-ote it' and it ';urned out to be something that a lot of other people wanted as well. It's very primitive, ve~y c.~-ude, compared to PC-TALK, bur it was die right place and t.~e right time, and there was tremendous response for it. I'm kicking myself a .ittle now; maybe I shouid have put a littie message in there: "Please send 35 bucks." ~'1aughter; F.~EGEL,'~1AI~I: I just want to know: How many poople in this room ax using Dennis~s program and wouid send him some money for it? I wouid VOICE: Why don't you ask it as two questions' (laughter) FlldEGELMAN: No, it's a compound question. BROTHERS: It is not a high enough quality program, in my estimation, to wa.~nt tbat. And I don't have the ume to put into it to bring it up to the level of PC- TALK where I believe it wouid be wo.~h tbat kind of contwiburion. ART KLEINER (telecommualcau'ons ditor fw Whole Earth Software Ca~atog and Whole Ear~h Review): You had time to hang out on Compuserve Inetworkl and answer peeple's questions. though. BR3THERS: Yeah, but that's more for t~he fun of it. I don': have any better luck explaining this to m~ wife than explaining it eo you guys. (.aughterj Someda' I may make most of my income off that program and its derivatives and reLated things, but today my prima.'y bus~ness is completely unxlated to tbat, and I just don't The founding text for the Hackers' Conference was Steven Levy's Hacker5 (1984; 456 pp.; 117. 95 [rom Doubledy and Company, 501 Fronklin Ave., Garden City, NY .~1530, or Com- puter LiteraCy,~. Levy does for computerS what Tom Wolfe did for space WidT The Right Stuff. Both are behind-the-srenes tales of elite othletes pursuing potent new technologies; both ore vividly written; both are inspiring. The very structure of the book was the occosion {or the Conference. Levy chronicIes t”ree generations of hackers Äthe mini-computer all-night coders ot MlT and Stanford in the '60s, the hardware .hackers aroun.d the Home- brew Computer Clu.b wha marfe 2he first personal computers in the mid- '705, ond t.he myrind home-grown programmers on those computers as soOn as they hit the market, who gave us the goloxy of conSumer softwore from VISICALC to CHOPLIFTER. fn the succession of generobons Levy portrays a gradual degroding, com- mertiolizing of the Hocker Etbic. Th.e Hockers' Conference was cafkd to lain the t„ree generations fior the pr5t b'me to see if they had onything to sey to eoch other, and to see where the Hacker E2hiC reolly was after years of stress in the boom-and-bust computer business. "[ach gener„t.~'on," remarked conference co-desigr~er Lee Fefsenstein, "has suffered an intusion of Big Money. ft may be ;nteres2.'ng for them to compare how they've dealt with tbat." ÄSB -