Re: Scripture (was: Unlikely Existence of God)

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: : : (This post is a reply to Lynn's comments) : : In your previous post you said that I may get proof of a : : spiritual realm but it would be from the Anti-Christ who would : : perform signs and wonders. When this begins, you claimed that : : people with anti-Christian sentiments would start the : : persecution of Christians. You also wanted to discuss biblical : : scripture. : : To start, I would like to say that I am not your enemy. I'm not : : anti-Christian but more accurately, I'm non-Christian. Just because : : you're not a Bahai doesn't mean you're anti-Bahai does it? Like I : : said before, I can respect the religious beliefs of others but I : : cannot embrace them. Also, even if some guy showed me that he had : : supernatural powers, I'd rather die than persecute people for their : : religious beliefs (and I'm sure that most people who post here : : would agree with me). : : I do not consider you my enemy, Jason, but when the time comes for the anti-christ to be revealed he will decieve many, "even the elect, if that were possible". There are already many who see Christianity as dangerous and the source of many social ills, and worse. Perhaps they won't participate, but they may turn a blind eye. Although, atheists and freethinkers my be persecuted too if they do not worship the Beast. : : : Getting into biblical scripture, I do have a few questions. I'm : : sure that you're familiar with the Mosaic Law in the OT. Here's an : : example: : : "If anyone secretly entices you-- even if it is your : : brother, your father's son or your mother's son, or : : your own son or daughter, or the wife you embrace, or : : your most intimate friend-- saying, "Let us go worship : : other gods," .... you must not yield to or heed any : : such persons. Show them no pity or compassion and do : : not shield them. But you shall surely kill them; your : : own hand shall be first against them to execute them, : : and afterwards the hand of all the people." : : (Deut. 13:6,8-9) : : Now if you were an Israelite living in OT times, would you really : : obey such an order? If I was the Israelite I would have said, : : "God, you may have the might but you don't have the right!" Like : : I said, I'd rather die than persecute people because of their : : religious beliefs. There's more. Mosaic Law commanded the death : : penalty for things like: not keeping the sabbath, being a : : stubborn son, homosexuality, and adultery. In addition, things : : like genocide and murdering infants and children are routinely : : commanded to the Israelites by a supposedly omnibenevolent deity. : : If you subscribe to "Skeptic" perhaps you may have read John : : Hartung's essay on religious xenophobia and genocide in the OT : : (vol.3, no.4). : : The latter half of Deuteronomy 13:4 says, "...that man has tried to draw you aside from the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So shall you put the evil away from your midst." : Worshipping false gods is about the worst thing you can do in God's eyes. Spiritually speaking, these false worshippers were already dead. To put them physically to death served two purposes, one was to keep the Israelites undefiled, and two was to keep those destined for punishment from stacking the charges against themselves even higher. : : You would probably argue that Jesus fulfilled the OT law and : : is therefore negated. However, this still doesn't change : : the fact that these kind of laws are barbaric and reprehensible. : : Even if these laws were negated later on, they are totally : : inconsistent with the idea of an omnibenevolent deity. Now : : compare the Mosaic Law with something like the Universal : : Declaration of Human Rights. Supposedly, one of these systems : : was inspired by an omnibenevolent deity, and another by sinful : : imperfect humans. Which system appears more benevolent to you? : Perhaps you could direct me to a copy of the Declaration of Human Rights : : : I should point out that there is a group called the Christian : : Reconstruction movement who think that the OT law should still : : be applied today. They believe that Jesus only fulfilled OT : : laws like circumcision, animal sacrifice, and dietary rules. : : From your writing you appear to be a very decent and tolerant : : person, so I can tell that you don't adhere to CR beliefs. : : - Jason : : : No, I don't. : I wonder if you, or anyone else here has ever played the game "MYST". Unlocking the Bible is a lot like it. To play the game you go in, look around, and at first glance nothing makes sense, but you keep searching, thinking, and experimenting in order to solve the mystery because you go into it knowing that the answers are there if you look hard enough. Once you discover the answer to one of the riddles it seems so simple that you can't believe you missed it in the first place. If you didn't know for sure that the creators of the game had actually made the puzzle solvable, you might be inclined to give up, and quick! The Bible is a mystery also, and I suppose it takes a certain amount of faith just to look for the meaning and truth of it because you have to believe that it is a solvable puzzle before your start. I hope this analogy makes sense. I'm having trouble putting it into words, although I understand it completely in my head.

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