Posted by Lynn on January 07, 1997 at 09:39:46:
In Reply to: Re: Bertrand Russell posted by Amanda on January 07, 1997 at 07:59:37:
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: : Would you comment further on his teachings about Christ and scripture. I would appreciate an opportunity to refute his claims, as I'm sure I would disagree, from what you have told me so far.
: Sure, I'd appreciate your comments.
: He initially makes the claimthat to be a Christian one must believe that Christ was, if not divine, then the best and wisest of men. He grants Christ a very high degree of moral goodness but no divinity nor a "best man" title.
: He quotes Jesus' saying "Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." He shows that this is not a new principle and was used by Lao-tse and Buddha 500 years before Christ. He also quotes the "Judge not lest ye be judged." line and shows how this has never been popular in the law courts of Christian countries. He quotes two other of Christ's teachings that he likes but says they aren't practiced by the majority of Christians - these are: "Give to him that asketh of thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" and "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor." These comments were all under the heading "The Character of Christ".
: Under the heading "Defects in Christ's Teachings" he gives examples of how Christ appears in the Gospels and why he doesn't find them very wise. If you take it narratively it certainly looks that Christ thought His second coming would occur before the death of all the people who were living at that time. Comments like "There are some standing here which shall not taste death till the Son of Man comes into His kingdom". Russell also remarks that Christ believed in Hell and believed that and person who is profoundly humane can not believe in everlasting punishment. There appears tobe a vindictive fury associated with Christ in the Gospels, against those people who would not listen to his preaching. He compares Christ to Socrates and I enjoyed the comparison. He quotes such lines as "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell." and "Whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven him niether in this World nor in the world to come." That last bit has caused a lot of misery in this world for people who have believed that they committed a sin and would never be forgiven. Russell claims that a person with a proper degree of kindliness in his nature would not have put fears and terrors of this sort into the world. He also quotes the sayings of Christ regarding hell and what it will be like - "wailing and gnashing of teeth", "fire that shall never be quenched" and claims it put added cruelty into the world and gave the world generations of cruel torture.
: I only looked at the one essay to give you this info - there is much more and would be happy to give it to you if you want. I think Russell makes some good points on this subject but I have come across other people who perhaps do a better job at discussing Christ. Anyway, let me know what you think.
Hello Amanda,
Thank you for the information. I think I should probably get one of his books and read it for myself so we can have a more interesting debate, never the less, I will take a stab at a couple of these points.
I believe portions of the truth are sure to be found in most religions, (there are probably exceptions). Truth is truth, and it is not hidden only for a chosen few to find. The problem is, most of us, Christians included, like to pick out the part of the truth that suits us.
"Judge not, lest ye be judged", means that Christians are not supposed to condemn others in our hearts and decide the condition of their spiritual health. I have always found it to be true that when I become angry with someone and get all eat up over it, I start looking at their life and pointing out all that is I see that is wrong in order to prove to myself that I am the better person, therefore, I am right. Inevitably, God will show me how I have also committed those same errors in one form or another (and many others besides), and reminds me about the depths from which I have been rescued, and that I ought to be thankful that the One who forgives me is far nobler, kinder, and merciful than I was just being to that other person. This is when I am reminded of the words, "judge not lest ye be judged".
This is not an instruction to let criminals run amuck. America is considered to be a Christian country, founded on Christian principles, at least that's what people on both sides of the God issue keep telling me. It is my understanding that we have a pretty liberal justice system compared to most countries. Have I been misinformed?
"There are some standing here who will not taste of death until they see the Son of Man come into his Kingdom" is not a very good example of that very interesting point. This is referring to the Transfiguation of Christ, when the apostles witnessed Jesus in his glorified state talking with Moses and Elijah in a cloud.
The Jews living at that time were witnessing the "end of the age" as pertaining to the Old Testament law and the way they percieved God.
As Jesus was being led to the cross, a woman was following behind him weeping and waling. Jesus said something to the effect of, "Woman do not weep for me, but for yourself and your children." There were terrible times of persecution and war after Jesus' death. There are many references to these times of trouble in the New Testament, and they are sometimes hard to distinguish from end time prophecy. I do not yet totally understand this subject myself, but I am fascinated by it and hope to have a better answer one day.
The thing about never being forgiven for blaspheming the Holy Spirit pertains to a particular circumstance. If you'll notice, He says that all sins , including anything spoken against the Son of Man, (i.e., Jesus, God..) WILL be forgiven. In this instance, someone was saying that the miracles that Jesus had performed through the Holy Spirit were of the Devil. I guess that's where God has drawn his line where forgivenss is concerned.