Multimedia Mania/abacus-multimedia-mania.iso/dp/0120/01207.txt

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$Unique_ID{bob01207}
$Pretitle{}
$Title{Nixon Tapes, The
April 15, 1973. (11:45pm - 11:53pm)}
$Subtitle{}
$Author{Various}
$Affiliation{}
$Subject{nixon
pres
peterson
yes
sir
say
am
dean
now
right}
$Date{1974}
$Log{}
Title:       Nixon Tapes, The
Author:      Various
Date:        1974

April 15, 1973. (11:45pm - 11:53pm)

Telephone conversation:  President Nixon and Henry Petersen

Operator:  Yes, please

Pres. Nixon:  Would you get me Mr. Henry Petersen of the Justice Department -
               Assistant Attorney General.

Operator:  I certainly will sir, right.  Thank you

Pres. Nixon:  Hello

H. Peterson:  Yes, sir.

Pres. Nixon:  I hope I didn't wake you up.

H. Peterson:  No, not at all.

Pres. Nixon:  I wanted to tell you first, I have - apparently I've got the
               President of the Rotary International at noon tomorrow.  Could
               you make it 1:30?

H. Peterson:  Yes, sir.

Pres. Nixon:  That won't interfere with your lunch or anything?

H. Peterson:  No.

Pres. Nixon:  Fine.  Second, I have met with Dean.  I got him in finally and
               heard his story and I said directly to him, "Now when do you
               want to resign?"  And, be said, "Well I will resign but I would
               prefer to wait until I have testified."  Now I want to ask your
               judgment on that.  I can bring him in in the morning and tell
               him, "Look, I want your resignation."

Pres. Nixon:  But, what do you want me to do?  I don't want to interfere with
               your process?

H. Peterson:  Mr. President, I don't think that we ought to

Pres. Nixon:  Tip our hand?

H. Peterson:  Not yet.  He is the first one who has really come

Pres. Nixon:  Oh, I see.

H. Peterson:  He came in a week ago Sunday.

Pres. Nixon:  Right.  Let me say this.  The main thing Henry we must not have
               any question, now, on this, you know I am in charge of this
               thing.  You are and I am.  Above every thing else and I am
               following it every inch of the way and I don't want any
               question, that's of the fact that I am a way ahead of the game.
               You know, I want to stay one step ahead of the curve.  You know
               what I mean?

H. Peterson:  I understand.

Pres. Nixon:  So - if you think on Dean -

H. Peterson:  I think we ought to hold the line.

Pres. Nixon:  Alright and you will let me know.

H. Peterson:  Yes, sir.  I will indeed.

Pres. Nixon:  as soon as - then I will call him in and naturally he will have
               to resign.

H. Peterson:  Yes, sir.

Pres. Nixon:  Now Haldeman and Ehrlichman - I have informed both of them of
               the charges that have been generally made and I have said that
               if they stand up, and I didn't have to say it.  They said well,
               of course, we will, we don't want to be an embarrassment.  They
               are good guys.  But my feeling with both of them, and it is
               only a question, and we talked today of when - no, it is
               whether, also, but I think you've got to hear Strachan and I
               think you've got to hear Dean and then I suppose you would want
               to hear them or do you think we should move on them before?  Or
               do you want to think of that overnight?

H. Peterson:  We would like to wait.  We would like to wait, Mr. President.

Pres. Nixon:  Because like today, you were suggesting that we call them all in
               and have them resign and I just wanted to be sure you didn't
               think I should do that because I am perfectly prepared to.

H. Peterson:  That is really your judgment.  I think ultimately that is going
               to have to be done.

Pres. Nixon:  Yeah.  But your point is that as far as the case is concerned,
               you are telling me now that it is best to wait.  Is that the
               point?

H. Peterson:  On Dean, yes.  And on Ehrlichman/Haldeman - I suppose until we
               hear their testimony, which is, well we want to put them off
               until we can fashion all the

Pres. Nixon:  All the others.

H. Peterson:  things into a pattern.

Pres. Nixon:  How soon would that be, for my own planning, about a week?

H. Peterson:  I don't think it is going to be less than a week and I would say
               two weeks or more.

Pres. Nixon:  Oh, you think it might be two weeks?

H. Peterson:  I would say so.  Yes, sir.

Pres. Nixon:  It will take that long, huh?

H. Peterson:  I am afraid so because

Pres. Nixon:  Well by that time, my view is that the damn thing will leak out
               and I - well be that as it may, we'll see.

H. Peterson:  That conceals it.

Pres. Nixon:  Why don't you and I talk about that tomorrow?

H. Peterson:  We will.

Pres. Nixon:  And we will look over the Haldeman/Ehrlichman thing to see what
               the facts are and maybe you could give me a little sheet of
               paper on both as to what you feel their vulnerabilities are so
               that I could you do that?

H. Peterson:  I will try indeed.  Yes, sir.

Pres. Nixon:  I mean just say, for these reasons, etc. and then I will be in a
               position to act on it.

H. Peterson:  Very good.

Pres. Nixon:  You understand, there isn't going to be any problem, of course
               not with Dean and neither Haldeman nor Ehrlichman.  They are
               perfectly prepared to do whatever I say at a moment's notice
               because they put the office first.  But the only thing I am
               concerned about is in the prosecution of a case like this, it
               may be that if you have them move it may have an effect on some
               of the others you are trying to get to testify.  I don't know,
               but -

H. Peterson:  That is certainly true with Dean.

Pres. Nixon:  Certainly true with Dean?

H. Peterson:  Yes, sir.

Pres. Nixon:  Uh, huh.  He is in a mood to resign right now but I will see.  I
               will check him tomorrow.

H. Peterson:  Are you seeing -

Pres. Nixon:  Uh huh.  And Haldeman/Ehrlichman, you say we'll talk about it
               tomorrow.  Or do you want to think about it?

H. Peterson:  I want to think about it some more, yes, sir, because we are
               going to have to weave all of the facts with respect to them
               into a pattern.  It is not going to come out neat and clean -


Pres. Nixon:  And clear -

H. Peterson:  with respect to either one of them.

Pres. Nixon:  Because, in both cases they have a - basically in both of their
               cases, as I look at the thing since it is basically the
               obstruction of justice case for the most part, with the
               possibility of Haldeman of knowledge, although that is
               questionable to believe.  But you have to hear Strachan be fore
               you decide that.

H. Peterson:  Yes, sir.

Pres. Nixon:  But that's a matter which is going to involve your hearing them
               too, what they know, I suppose, as well as hearing the others.

H. Peterson:  Oh, I think that is right and I think with respect to the
               obstruction of justice thing is concerned, it is easy for me to
               see how they fell into that, if you like.

Pres. Nixon:  Yeah.  Uh, huh.  Rather than being directly conspirators?

H. Peterson:  That's right.  That's right.

Pres. Nixon:  And there is a difference in that respect, I suppose.

H. Peterson:  That's right.  A difference, at least, in moral culpability.

Pres. Nixon:  Sure.  Motive.

H. Peterson:  In plain terms of ultimate embarrassment, I think that -

Pres. Nixon:  The embarrassment is there, but in terms - basically in terms of
               motive which might be the legal culpability, they might be off
               but in terms of embarrassment they would have to be out of the
               government?

H. Peterson:  Yes, sir.

Pres. Nixon:  I get your point and, frankly, either one is enough.  I
               understand that totally because that was what was involved in
               the Adams' case, as you recall.

H. Peterson:  Yes.

Pres. Nixon:  He was not legally guilty of a damn thing.  Well, he might have
               been, might have been, I suppose, making the telephone call, if
               they had ever brought him to trial.  But because of the
               possibility, we had to move on him.  Well in any event, I am
               glad to get your view on it but I want you to know that having
               talked to Dean and told him to wait, I wanted you to know that
               I had told him to wait because I had agreed with him that I
               would not do it until I heard from him, but let me say I am
               going to wait until I hear from you then, on Dean.  Is that
               fair enough?

H. Peterson:  Fine, yes, sir.

Pres. Nixon:  And you will probably hear him Monday or Tuesday, tomorrow -
               well, you don't know yet.

H. Peterson:  We don't know yet.  Now, it's not going to be that quick.  We
               have Strachan, LaRue and O'Brien -

Pres. Nixon:  Tomorrow?

H. Peterson:  Tomorrow.  Let's say Monday and Tuesday.

Pres. Nixon:  Yep.  Huh, huh, What about Magruder?  You have to get him in
               there some place, don't you?

H. Peterson:  We've had him in and we have to get his testimony in before the
               Grand Jury, and we are trying to work out with his lawyers as
               to whether or not -

Pres. Nixon:  Well, he will come in and plead guilty so you can.  Because it
               seems to me, that your idea of getting him on and pleading
               guilty and beating the damn press and the Ervin Committee to it
               is a very good one.

Pres. Nixon:  Otherwise, you know, they are going to say they forced you to do
               it.  And that is very important, don't you agree?

H. Peterson:  There are negotiations underway with counsel now and obviously
               they are very much afraid of Sirica.  They are afraid Sirica is
               going to clap him in jail immediately.

Pres. Nixon:  Oh.

H. Peterson:  We have to see Sirica too.

Pres. Nixon:  Now, Sirica's got to see the point of this.  My goodness because
               the point is Sirica's got to realize he is getting bigger fish.

H. Peterson:  That's right.

Pres. Nixon:  Right?

H. Peterson:  That is it exactly.

Pres. Nixon:  Alright.  Good luck.  Good bye.

H. Peterson:  Thank you for calling, Mr. President.