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1997-05-29
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Editor's Note: These minutes have not been edited.
Reported by Win Treese <treese@openmarket.com>
The TLS working group met during the 38th IETF meeting
in Memphis, Tennessee, on Wednesday, 4/9/97. The meeting
was chaired by Win Treese (treese@OpenMarket.com).
Minutes by Christopher Allen (ChristopherA@consensus.com);
edited by Win Treese.
Introduction and status
-------------------------------
The Internet Draft for TLS 1.0 is in Last Call for
Proposed Standard with the IESG. The comment
period closes April 25. The chair commended Tim
Dierks and Christopher Allen for their work on the
draft.
Tim Dierks summarized some minor changes for
the current draft to be incorporated into the final
version:
* The vendor ID string was removed for lack of consensus.
* A new construction for the PRF (as previously noted
on the mailing list)
* PRF will also be used for Finish message.
An objection was raised of using MD5 since there are now some
doubts about how good it is. Ran Canetti noted that the construction
does not require strong collision-randomness. Dan Simon added that
there are no known attacks against this function.
Tim then discussed specifying additional cipher suites in additional
documents, including the specification for bulk encryption,
hashes, key exchange, and compression. There have been some
suggestions to share values with other groups, like PPP and IPSEC;
these will be pursued off-line.
It has also been proposed that new certificate types can be defined by
adding additional cipher suites, but no agreement was reached on this
approach.
There was some discussion of using a truncated PRF in the Finish
messages, but there are no changes at this time.
We discussed whether or not the TLS specification should require a
minimum set of cipher suites for conforming implementations. One
difficulty of this is that it would either require weak cipher suites to
enable exportable implementations, or make it impossible to export
conforming implementations. It was suggested that any minimum
cipher specs required for particular applications using TLs could be
specified in "XXX protocol over TLS" documents such as "HTTP over
TLS". The group agreed not to add any minimum requirements at
this time.
There was no objections on proceeding through IESG last call, with
the changes described by Tim Dierks.
Possible New Work
---------------------------
Rodney Thayer (thayer@sabletech.com) summarized some
issues from the mailing list as potential work items going forward:
Cryptographic Issues
MAC, Encryption schemes, new schemes
Authentication Issues
Shared Key Authenticaiton, PGP, non-X.509 certificates,
SPKI
Relationship to other IETF work
IPSEC, SASL, ISAKMP
Interoperability requirements
Interface and service definitions
Applications usage
SSH, port mapping, immediate "customer needs" for using
TLS (e.g., FTP, SMTP, SSH).
Enhancements to handshake protocol
These items were presented as possible work items; no decisions
were made on particular items.
Short presentations on proposed modifications
---------------------------------------------------------------
John Wilson (Intel) discussed the use of TLS for
Internet Telephony & Conferencing. ITU H.323
(protocol for Internet telephony) wants to use TLS.
The key issues causing problems with TLS are end-to-end
trust relationship with a proxy in the center, and a lack
of symmetry with certificate discovery. The proposed
fix is to make the initial handshake symmetric.
Dan Simon noted that reversing the the client/server
relationship could be used as a temporary fix for this
particular application.
Ran Canetti (IBM) described some possible changes to
TLS that incorporate some of the ideas from ISAKMP.
These include making the RSA-encryption mode
two-directional, key exchange that is anonymous for
eavesdroppers, perfect forward secrecy for resuming sessions,
and PRF negotiation. There was separate discussion about
making TLS work well with ISAKMP and other IPSEC work
so it may or may not be worthwhile to add those changes.
Matt Hur (CyberSafe) described a proposal to add Kerberos
as a cipher suite for TLS. The group agreed to consider the
document for the standards track. A reference implementation
is available at ftp://prospero.isi.edu/pub/ssl-kerb
There was some discussion of putting registering the identifiers
for the Kerberos cipher suites into the TLS draft, but we
decided not to do so.
Ned Smith (Intel) proposed a way to incorporate non-X509
certificates into the current protocol by overloading current
fields. Adding such support seems like a good idea for the
next version, where it might be done more cleanly.
Paul Hoffman (Internet Mail Consortium) described his
proposed implementation of SMTP over TLS using an ESMTP
extension to negotiate TLS, rather than using a different port.
John Gardner described two alternative approaches to layering
SASL on TLS. The two are not completely compatible, but
no TLS changes were proposed at this time. For more discussion,
join the SASL mailing list: ietf-sasl-request@imc.org, or see the
web page http://www.imc.org/ietf-sasl
Tatu Ylonen presented some ideas for changing TLS to
make it possible to use TLS as the transport security layer
for SSH. SSH needs forward secrecy, more encryption ciphers,
and compression, among other proposed changes. These
will be discussed in more detail on the mailing list.
Work Items going forward
------------------------------------
Treese summarized the work items for continued discussion:
* Moving forward on the Kerberos cipher suite draft
* Investigating how to benefit from IPSEC and other security
area working groups.
* Shared key authentication (which was not discussed much in
the meeting, but had previously been deferred)
* Support for non-X509 certificates
* Making the initial handshake symmetric
* Proposed changes to work better with SSH
* IANA registration for cipher suites