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Info-Atari16 Digest         Mon, 15 Apr 91       Volume 91 : Issue 212

Today's Topics:
                        BBS Programs (3 msgs)
         G-Print demo available on atari.archive (and GEnie)
                            GFA Basic 3.5?
                       ghostscript, dvips on ST
            Graphics on the STE - v. generally speaking...
                         Mac Rom availability
                     Mega Ste and Clab's notator?
                     Posting Z*net International
          Posting Z*Net International 3rd request! (3 msgs)
                       Re: Z*Net International
                          smail on Atari ST
                   Z*Net and ST Report availability
                          Z*Net email reply

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 15 Apr 91 02:41:49 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!
 mintaka!spdcc!tauxersvilli!alphalpha![e-mail] (Kee Hinckley)
Subject: BBS Programs
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Phillip Keen) writes:
>I am in the process of getting either an Atari 8-bit, an Atari ST, or an Apple
>// system to run my BBS on.  I have decided to go this route rather than
>upgrading for it is much cheaper.  However, I do realize the consequences of

Without question the best BBS I have ever seen - on any system, is
Morgan Davis' ProLine system for the Apple II.  I run it on a IIe
suped up with an 8mhz zip chip.  It runs for weeks sometime without
my paying any attention to it.  It supports Usenet newsfeeds and
outside email connections, the software upgrades arrive electronicly
via remote copies, the code is almost all in AppleSoft basic, which
makes bug fixes and additiions relatively straightforward.  And to
top it off the environment includes a large portion of Unix-style
commands and a cshell subset.  You can get more info from
[e-mail] (...crash!pnet01!pro-sol!mdavis).
--
Alfalfa Software, Inc.          |       Poste:  The EMail for Unix
[e-mail]              |       Send Anything... Anywhere
617/646-7703 (voice/fax)        |       [e-mail]

I'm not sure which upsets me more: that people are so unwilling to accept
responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate
everyone else's.

------------------------------

Date: 14 Apr 91 22:02:21 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!wciu!abode!scale@arizona.e
 du (Luis Outumuro)
Subject: BBS Programs
To: [e-mail]

        Hi Phillip,
                About running your own BBS.  It can be a real pain in the axx
(well... you know!); while occassionally it also has it's rewards.  To "do it
right", you will need a few basics; a computer just for the BBS (not one that
you "share" with the BBS part-time), a hard drive and a 2400 bps modem (any
slower a modem, and many users won't even call!).  Any of the three computers
you mentioned (an Atari 800XL/130XE, Atari ST or an Apple IIx) would work great
for running a BBS.  Which one to use really depends on if you have a spare one
of these lying around unused, or can acquire for the least amount of money, or
have a preference for a specific BBS software.  Look around, the style of BBS
YOU like and which computer you can afford to setup, will be factors.
        As for the Atari 8-Bits, there are really only two realistic choices
for BBS software; BBS Express Professional and Carina II (2.5).  Both the
SysOp's of CII and Pro love to flame each other over which one is better, but
both are excellent systems as each as both advantages and disadvantages.
        Both CII and Pro have networking, capable message editors and U/D
sections.  Also online games and databases.  No matter what anyone tells you
(gee... does this include me? :~) ), niether one is "better" than the other.
        Now of course, I have my personal preference; but then I have been
running CII for three years now (was that subtle or what?!).  For CII "looks &
feels" the way I want my BBS to "look & feel".  It is written in BASIC, so I
can modify (easily!) to my heart's content; both BASIC and SpartaDOS are
available remotely so I modify from anywhere while I am out of town.  In three
years CII has never crashed (although the MIO did go POP during a heat wave!),
CII can be safely called "bullet-proof".
        Pro has many of these features too, although I am not as knowledgable
about Pro as I am about CII.  Hopefully someone here on the net is a Pro SysOp
and can give you (and all of us) more insight into the workings of BBS Express
Professional.  I hope this helps, bye.............

                                Luis

--
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Luis Mark Outumuro III                |  "Well... you're damned if you do,
Computer Office Products 818/813-1051 |   and you're damned if you don't!"
Infoline                 818/813-1053 |         - Bart Simpson, 1990...

------------------------------

Date: 15 Apr 91 23:59:29 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!apple!agate
 !darkstar!ucscb.UCSC.EDU![e-mail] (The Unknown User)
Subject: BBS Programs
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Kee
 Hinckley) writes:
>Without question the best BBS I have ever seen - on any system, is
>Morgan Davis' ProLine system for the Apple II.  I run it on a IIe

        I've never seen ProLine, so I can't comment on it, but I really
think GBBS is a really good BBS system from using it. (And I've read a lot
of the info on it because I was going to write a full-screen editor for one
but unfortunately there are no arrays in the language it uses)

        I've pretty much gotten out of the microcomputer BBSes though, except
for getting new programs..

        UNIX, cshell, the Internet and UseNet just seem to be a new dimension
in modemming... non-networked (or minimally networked) BBSes just seem
so "small."

        Yeah, I realize ProLine can get a UseNet feed.

        A pretty neat BBS for MSDOS systems (and it runs under UNIX too)
is waffle. If anyone's interested in an Apple II version of it, send mail
to [e-mail]

        I've wanted to port that program for a long time or have them port
it as it's pretty good (they won't let me port it, but maybe sufficient
outside interest will help it happen).
--
/[e-mail] Apple IIGS Forever! WANT ULTIMA VI //e or GS?-mail me.\
\CHEAP CDs info-mail me. McIntosh Junior:  The Power to Crush the Other Kids. /

------------------------------

Date: 15 Apr 91 20:37:45 GMT
From: oahu.cs.ucla.edu![e-mail] (Steve Whitney)
Subject: G-Print demo available on atari.archive (and GEnie)
To: [e-mail]

I've uploaded two new demos of G-Print to atari.archive so I'm going to
repost the program's description below.  You won't see this again unless
I post a new version.

gprnt_dmo.arc is a demonstration version of G-Print which can print to let you
              see the quality of G-Print's output.  It prints "G-Print demo"
              on each page of output.  This demo requires that you already`
              have GDOS (or G+Plus) and a printer driver with fonts.

gprnt_ox.arc  is the G-Print "option explorer."  It lets you try out G-Print's
              functions without having a copy of GDOS with drivers and fonts.
              The option explorer won't print, but it will display a snapshot
              of a G-Print screen preview with screen fonts loaded.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Changes from version 1.02:

        Mostly small bug fixes.  Problems with title pages using multiple
                columns, custom spacing, and page borders, and landscape
                printing have been fixed.  Command keys for the "Special"
                menu options have been added.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The demos are available on atari.archive in the

Here's the announcement:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Announcing G-Print, the GEM-based print formatting program for the Atari ST.

G-Print, which is now shipping, reads files from ST Writer, Word Writer ST,
1st Word, and 1st Word Plus as well as straight ASCII files.  It then prints
them with a variety of formatting options using GDOS printer drivers and fonts.

Here are _some_ of the things G-Print can do:

* multiple columns      * multiple fonts        * landscape format print
* title pages           * rules and borders     * saved configuration files
* run word processor    * screen preview        * "booklet" print
* microspace justification

Landscape print allows you to print spreadsheets with much more than 80
columns.  Even prints on legal size paper in landscape mode.

G-Print also has the unique ability to remap special text effects so that
light print, say, can be printed as outlined or in a special font.

In its fully functional distribution, G-Print provides GDOS and an easy to use
installer program, but a demo version which requires GDOS and a printer driver
with fonts is available on atari.archive in the newitems directory under
gprntdmo.arc.  A non-printing demo which doesn't need GDOS is under
gprnt_ox.arc.

G-Print is available for US$27 + $2 S/H

For more information, send me e-mail at [e-mail] or contact

        MacDonald Associates Publishers
        909 NW Starlite Place
        Grants Pass, OR  97526
        USA
        orders: [phone]
        info: [phone]



--
Steve Whitney   "It's never _really_ the last minute"       (())_-_(())
UCLA Comp. Sci. Grad. Student                                | (* *) |
Internet: [e-mail]              UCLA Bruin-->
GEnie:    S.WHITNEY                                           `-----'

------------------------------

Date: 15 Apr 91 23:01:58 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio
 -state.edu!ohstpy!miavx1![e-mail] (Ryan 'Gozar' Collins)
Subject: GFA Basic 3.5?
To: [e-mail]

Ok, I just got done reading the newest Z*nets, and I have a question. When
was GFA Basic 3.5 released? I saw they have an update to it for the TT to
ver 3.6. I bought 3.02 and the compiler a year and a half ago, and I
haven't heard a thing from them. (I heard Antic is now in charge of it.)

So what should I do about upgrading? Should I try to contact Antic and find
out whats going on? Any ideas?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan 'Gozar' Collins      Question for MAC Users:      [e-mail]
   ||||   Power Without    What IS the format of a     [e-mail]
  / || \  The Price!!       MAC HFS floppy disk?       R.COLLINS1 on GEnie
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 15 Apr 91 21:21:32 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
 ![e-mail] (Timothy Gallivan)
Subject: ghostscript, dvips on ST
To: [e-mail]

Hi,

This is my third attempt to post this info. I'll get it right
one day.

I have a partial port of ghostscript (GNU project's postscript
interpreter) running on the ST. I know of one small bug, but as
soon as I get gdb working, I hope to exterminate it. I currently
have only the HP DeskJet driver working, but I think (hope) it
will be simple to install any of the other drivers distributed
with ghostscript (i.e. epson).

I am soliciting any information (about the atari and ghostscript)
which might help me to write a screen driver for the ST. I am not
very familiar with ST hardware, TOS, GEM, or the ghostscript
device interface, so that is a tall order. Perhaps someone will
volunteer to write it for me (wishful thinking). Is it possible
to have a GEM screen driver for a non-GEM program? Can I hack
one of the MSDOS VGA drivers?

I also have dvips running on the ST. Dvips converts TeX .dvi files
to postscript files. It supports the use of TeX 'special' commands
to include postscript graphics in TeX/LaTeX documents. The
TeX/dvips/ghostscript combination can be very powerful.

I can post these programs (as they are) if anyone is interested and
is willing to give me instructions for how to post executables.
Thanks,

Tim Gallivan
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 15 Apr 91 14:01:05 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!mintaka!bl
 oom-beacon!eru!kth.se!sunic!mcsun!unido!ipsi![e-mail] (Georg
 Wallmann)
Subject: Graphics on the STE - v. generally speaking...
To: [e-mail]

This comes a little late but...
[In resonse to H.CHus Color graphics board]

I've been thinking about the same thing too, but my calculations
always came up with "too expensive". Of course if you think 16 MB isn't
expensive ... as you do in your post. While thinking about it I
had this great idea for a new RAM technology, which unfortunately
(then unbeknownst to me) already existed as dual-port RAM. Even then the
bus width needed and the cycle speed is just about too ridicolous for
a home computer. Personally I'd be happy with 640*400*16bit colors at
70Hz and some hires in mono. That would be monetarily feasible, I only
want color for the games <slobber> anyway, and some hires for programming.

I as a lowly long-time Atari customer, would indeed be already happy
over some _small_ improvements.
How about Player/Missile Graphics for at least the *&~% mouse cursor,
I can not believe that in the nineties we still got to  erase the cursor,
draw something, turn it on again, erase the cursor draw something , turn
it on again (*)


Not neccessarily Atari specific:

Floating point is done in hardware (What %age of the user crowd
actually uses floating points (me NEVER!!) ?), but the stuff you'd
really need is done in software (probably in compiled Alcyon C to boot)
Programs like EZ-draw would definetely profit from a hardwired
draw routine for example. How about a microprogrammable stupid CPU,
that you'd just give instructions like
FOR(;;)                       ;; this is some mix between
IF IRQ pending                ;; english, basic, lisp C and ML
  GRAB BYTE from PORT0        ;; lisp for the comments that is
  STUFF it into BUFFER at $XXXX ;; har har
  IF BUFFERP == full signal IRQ LEVEL 2
  CLRIRQ
END

That's basically perfect for sound processing, non DMA I/O processing
and maybe even so stupid tasks as memory initializing. And the 'real'
CPU with it's overkill of registers and cache and what have you
needn't worry about those bothersome context switches for every
*%~$ little interrupt.

Why is everyone so hung up about processor speed ? Sure it's nice that
the compiler does it in 5 minute, if it used to grind for 15 minutes
but chances are that a faster harddisk might be just as profitable
in terms of speed. How often do you compile, aren't you 90% of the time
just typing stuff into an editor ?? Personally I am quite happy even with
a lowly 68000 @ 8Mhz. Yes you speed demons it's allrite for me, IF the
rest of the hardware would do the job, I think a CPU shouldn't do like
graphics, I/O and sound!! My guess it that there just aren't enough
competant people in hardware R&D (anywhere for that matter) to do the
job. So they put in a faster CPU and delegate the rest to a cheesy
graphics card, which virtually does nothing except converting RAM
to colored dots.(the one Intel or TI chip I heard about maybe an exception,
but probably not). Ok this does not neccessarily apply to machines in
scientific environments, where one shittily written application is layered on
top of another (probably in some local LISP dialect) until the processor
croaks.


About every two years it gets to me and I write an article like that,
that's maybe because I would like to buy a computer and don't see
anything I'd like to buy. (Well that ST Notebook sounds tempting,
got yet to see one though...) thanks to the readers of comp.sys.atari.st
for taking it with some humor and letting the old man ramble on
a bit.
bye y'all

        Nat!



(*)Probably the Amiga does that right

------------------------------

Date: 15 Apr 91 21:55:44 GMT
From: fs7.ece.cmu.edu!o.gp.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu![e-mail] (Mark
 Choi)
Subject: Mac Rom availability
To: [e-mail]

   I think the $25 ROM amount is the cost of handling, and I bet you
have to be an authorized mac repair center, or at least have an Apple
medallion.

------------------------------

Date: 15 Apr 91 20:36:37 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!cs.uoregon.edu!ns.uoregon.edu!milton!
 [e-mail] (Alex Danilchik)
Subject: Mega Ste and Clab's notator?
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (John Janssen) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>
 Shervin.Shahrebani.Of.250/[e-mail] (Shervin Shahrebani Of
 250/744) writes:
>>I can tell you this much, Notator 3.0 works great with the new Mega STE.
>>
>>S.S.
>
>

Mikail at C-LAB says you see about a 20% increase in
speed with a MegaSTe.. less than what one would hope..
due to the fact that you have to disable the cache
to run NOTATOR.. once you do that .. the MegaSTe doesn't
seem to do much better than the 8 mhz ST's... i am told.

cheers!
gunnar
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 16 Apr 91 07:20:35 GMT
From: comp.vuw.ac.nz!am.dsir.govt.nz!marcamd!mercury!kcbbs![e-mail] (Jon
 Clarke)
Subject: Posting Z*net International
To: [e-mail]

This is request number two for those wanting Z*net International posted
to this news group.  Please email [e-mail]


------------
Voting so far
------------

 For posting            Against posting

    42                        3

------------------------------

Date: 16 Apr 91 07:24:27 GMT
From: comp.vuw.ac.nz!am.dsir.govt.nz!marcamd!mercury!kcbbs![e-mail] (Jon
 Clarke)
Subject: Posting Z*Net International 3rd request!
To: [e-mail]

 This is the third and final request for those wishing Z*Net International
to this news group comp.sys.atari.st.  Votes will close Monday the 22nd
of April 1991.

 We require a majority vote for the posting. Please send email to
 [e-mail] or reply direct to this newsgroup.

 [e-mail]     Z*net International On-line Magazine (NZ)

------------------------------

Date: 15 Apr 91 21:02:41 GMT
From: ccncsu!boulder![e-mail] (Shoou-yu Tang)
Subject: Posting Z*Net International 3rd request!
To: [e-mail]

 Isn't each issuse of znet more than 10KB or so in size? Wouldn't it waste a lot
 of
 banwidth to send it all over the world? Atari.archive.umich.edu has archives
 of znet under the magazines/znet, would that be more efficent way? Also there
 is a mailing list for individual want to receive it when greg got it, thats
 how I got mine and probably how atari.archive got it too.
 I'll check for the mailing list address and post it, or maybe Greg is watching
 can post it
 .
 Tang
 [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 16 Apr 91 01:18:10 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!samsung!umich!terminator!terminator.cc.umich.e
 du![e-mail] (Jeff Weiner)
Subject: Posting Z*Net International 3rd request!
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jon
 Clarke) writes:
>
> This is the third and final request for those wishing Z*Net International
>to this news group comp.sys.atari.st.  Votes will close Monday the 22nd
>of April 1991.

I'd like everyone to know that all issues of znet are archived
on atari.archive.umich.edu.  They are available by mail-service
and anonymous ftp.  There is little need to post a 60-70K article
every week.

This is not a flame, Jon knows my position on this matter.  I'd just
like everyone to be aware of the above fact.

>
> We require a majority vote for the posting. Please send email to
> [e-mail] or reply direct to this newsgroup.
>
> [e-mail]     Z*net International On-line Magazine (NZ)

weiner
--
Jeff Weiner     [e-mail]       [e-mail]
    Mail [e-mail] and ask if he'd like to be the pope
Atari.archive.umich.edu Caretaker||194M and climbin'|| "So like take off eh?"

------------------------------

Date: 15 Apr 91 19:44:11 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!udel!h
 aven!uvaarpa!murdoch!astsun.astro.Virginia.EDU![e-mail] (Greg Lindahl)
Subject: Re: Z*Net International
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
 (Technoid) writes:

>Hey,
>
>       I used to get ZNET from irisa.irisa.fr, but they haven't had a new issue in
 about a month and I was looking for a new site to find it at. Anyone
>know where to look for Late March and April?

Z*Net is available via email -- send mail to
[e-mail].

Amzing how many people don't read the frequently asked questions
list...

------------------------------

Date: 14 Apr 91 07:13:06 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-bc!ubc-cs!al
 berta!ncc!isagate![e-mail] (Darius S. Naqvi)
Subject: smail on Atari ST
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steve Yelvington)
 writes:
>[In article <[e-mail]>,
>     [e-mail] (Darius S. Naqvi) writes ... ]
>
>> Is this the Smail that we all know and love that runs on UNIX boxes,
>> i.e. the mail delivery agent?  If it is, then it's covered by the GNU
>> copyleft, so any version should be freely distributable.
>
>The program is Smail 2.5, originally by Christopher Seiwald. It accepts
>data from standard input, processes the headers as necessary, looks up a
>mailpath, and pipes the result to either a local delivery agent (lmail) or
>to uux for execution of rmail on a remote machine.
>
>The Smail source code that I have bears neither copyright nor copyleft.
>Smail 3.x, which is a different program entirely, may be covered by the
>GNU agreement. I don't know.
>
Information in the files README-3.1.19 and COPYING from the
distribution for smail 3.1.19 names Landon Curt Noll and Ronald S.
Karr as the authors, and places it under the GNU General Public
License, which more or less says that all versions based on this version
are free and must be distributed with source code, with no charge
other than a nominal charge for making copies.  (This is what I was
talking about when I mentioned the ``GNU Copyleft''.)

Possibly what happened is that the above two people took smail 2.5 (or
some other version) and modified it a lot, and then placed the whole
thing under the Gnu Copyleft.

>
>> I'd be interested in using this as the mail delivery agent when
>> running MINIX, as soon as I get UUCP for MINIX working properly.
>
>I think that for Minix you should compile the standard Unix Smail.
>

Assuming that my guess above is correct, that would be a good idea.
I like smail 3.1.19, but it would probably take up too many resources
for minix (i.e., ram, disk space, cpu cycles).  If smail 2.5 is more
or less the same thing with fewer features (hence smaller, less cpu
intensive, etc.) it would be worth a try.  The only problem is that I
assume that any archive sites with UNIX smail will have the latest 3.x
version.  Where could I get the standard UNIX smail v2.5, i.e., the
version that was modified for TOS *minus* all the modifications?

>----
>  Steve Yelvington / P. O. Box 38 / Marine on St. Croix, MN 55047 USA
>  INTERNET: [e-mail]    UUCP: plains!umn-cs!thelake!steve
>  GEnie: S.YELVINGTO2               Delphi: YELVINGTON


--
Darius S. Naqvi                    mail:[e-mail]
ISA Corp.                          uucp:
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada         phone:[phone]

------------------------------

Date: 15 Apr 91 19:46:42 GMT
From: cleveland.Freenet.Edu![e-mail] (Len Stys)
Subject: Z*Net and ST Report availability
To: [e-mail]

If you are wondering where to get present or past copies of Z*Net or ST Report,
they can be found on the Cleveland Free-Net.  There are issues from a little
over a year on the system.

You can access the Cleveland Free-Net by "telnt 129.22.8.75".


The past Online Mags are located in the Atari SIG (go atari) in the Atari
Library (option 9).



--


------------------------------

Date: 16 Apr 91 07:29:28 GMT
From: comp.vuw.ac.nz!am.dsir.govt.nz!marcamd!mercury!kcbbs![e-mail] (Jon
 Clarke)
Subject: Z*Net email reply
To: [e-mail]

ATT : Jeff Weiner @ Terminator.

 Jeff I was unable to reply to via email as our mailer did not like
your mail address, I replied to Jon @ terminator and my message was
simular to that, so if you can get a copy of that it may be the best
way . This is a little onesided (grin) you can speak to me but I can
not speak to me.

[e-mail]   Z*Net International On-line Magazine (NZ)

------------------------------

End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************