No Fragments Archive 12: Textmags & Docs/nf_archive_12.iso/MAGS/TEXTMAGS/ATARI16/INFO91.ZIP/INFO91/652.TXT

Text File | 1992-05-11 | 26.0 KB | 672 lines

Info-Atari16 Digest         Wed, 11 Dec 91       Volume 91 : Issue 652

Today's Topics:
                     '020 and '030 C compilers..
          Atari Chicago Show...if you want details Mail me.
                            ATARI GODS II
                             Atari Spirit
                        ATARIs videogame-image
                             Canon BJ-10e
                             DC? (3 msgs)
                         General comparisons
                      more problems with pym.arc
                       Sozobon V2.0 crc fault??
                  SUMMARY to "HELP: Mouse is flaky."
                   Tos 1.2 -> 1.4, should I do it?
             TOS 1.4 doesn't register double mouse click
                          TOS 2.06 for ST's

Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest.  The configuration for the automatic
cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed
out.  Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages
to [e-mail].

Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to
Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16.  Requests that go to the list
instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored.

If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly
from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please
contact the redistributor, not us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 11 Dec 91 00:31:54 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!munnari.o
 z.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au![e-mail] (Warwick
 Allison)
Subject: '020 and '030 C compilers..
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Christopher Russell) writes:

>We'd like to be able to
>generate '030 or at least '020 code on the ATari ST if possible.  Is a
>cross compiler available.  Will the GNU C compiler do this... thanks...

Yes, "-m68020" is the option you want.  But don't forget 68020/30 can
execute 68000 code anyway.  '020 and '030 supplies things like 32bit
multiplication (to 64bit result in two registers), scaled indexes (great
for indexing arrays).  etc.  I'm not exactly sure of the differences
between '020 and '030 (though you probably know).


Warwick
--
  _-_|\       [e-mail]           |
 /     *  <-- Computer Science Department,  |   HELLO, I'm a signature virus!
 \_.-._/      University of Queensland,     |          Join in the fun
      v       Brisbane, AUSTRALIA.          |       and copy me into yours!

------------------------------

Date: 11 Dec 91 05:34:27 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!gumby![e-mail] (Mark O'Bryan)
Subject: Atari Chicago Show...if you want details Mail me.
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
 writes:
> I'm thinking about going Atari, and selling my 286... what're the going
> prices for the TT, MEGA/STE, 1040ST, and 520ST?

I don't believe the vanilla 520ST, or 1040ST are still in production,
although you may still find a few lurking about (lots for sale used).

Toad Computers is running a "Holiday Sale" in the December Current Notes:

   520 STE - $329
   1MB STE - $349
   2MB STE - $449
   4MB STE - $549

   Mega STE 2/50 - $1199
   Mega STE 4/50 - $1299

   TT - call for prices

These look like some of the best prices I've seen anywhere.  Remember,
you'll also need at least one monitor, which are $149/319 for the Atari
mono/color respectively.  They're also charging a 4% credit card fee,
which I haven't noticed before.  Not surprising, considering their
prices.

4 megs of SIMMs are running around $150 these days, so a 520 STE would
be a cheap way to start, and easy to expand to 4 megs later.  An ICD
AdSpeed STE can be added to boost speed to 16 MHz for < $250.  E. Arthur
Brown is selling 52 MB Supra hard disk systems for $399 complete.

I don't know what TT's are selling for, or if the class B units have
hit the streets yet.  I'd guess around $1,600 for a 2 MB unit without
hard drive, with $350 to drop in a 100 MB drive.  Add %$450 for a
color monitor, or $1,000+ for a 19" monochrome.  Of course, you prob-
ably wouldn't want to run a 2 MB TT, and extra memory is rather ex-
pensive since ST RAM and TT RAM both require their own daughterboards.

That should give you enough ideas to get started.

--
Mark T. O'Bryan                 Internet:  [e-mail]
Western Michigan University
Kalamazoo, MI  49008

------------------------------

Date: 11 Dec 91 01:37:11 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!gumby!obryan@arizona.
 edu (Mark O'Bryan)
Subject: ATARI GODS II
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
 (William Speiser) writes:
> >Yes I'm back with more intolerable questons for the gods of atari users.

> >4. I'm looking for a PC emulator that will emmulate from a HDD as much
> >software as possible including vga graphics on a grayscale monitor. I
> >was thinking about getting Turbo but I raelly don't know what the
> >differences in the emulators are. It would be most helpful if anyone
> >could elaborate.
>
> None of the emulators will do VGA, and they are all very slow right now.  If
> you want this kind of performance, I would just get a clone and set it up
> next to the ST (I am currently surrounded by computers, heehee).

Both the AT-Speed and AT-Once PC emulator cards will do (mono) VGA.  Both
are available in 16 MHz versions, which I wouldn't consider "very slow",
although if you're used to a 33 MHz 386DX you'll be disappointed.  If
you've got room for yet another computer, a clone may be a better way
to go.

--
Mark T. O'Bryan                 Internet:  [e-mail]
Western Michigan University
Kalamazoo, MI  49008

------------------------------

Date: 11 Dec 91 02:23:38 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!think.com!wupost!gumby!obryan@arizona
 .edu (Mark O'Bryan)
Subject: Atari Spirit
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
> Nope... Atari Corp. killed ANALOG magazine years ago, just like they
> killed ANTIC and more recently START magazine.  They also killed
> ROM magazine, and ST Applications.

Don't forget ST Log, ST Xpress, ST World (US), ST World (UK),
and Compute ST.  Plus one other I forget that came between Xpress
and Atari User (briefly).

> About all you can get these days is Atari Interface and Current Notes,
> unless you want to read the Atari "official" magazine, Atari Explorer.

You left out ST Informer, and Atari User.  (Or aren't you counting
magazines on newsprint?  I personally like Informer a lot.)

> Of course, if you want to read about what's going on in Europe, there
> are several choices, some of which are even in English..!

I used to really enjoy ST World (UK), before it went away.  Their
recent "rebirth" within the pages of ST User doesn't seem to have
done much to improve the quality of ST User (UK).

--
Mark T. O'Bryan                 Internet:  [e-mail]
Western Michigan University
Kalamazoo, MI  49008

------------------------------

Date: 8 Dec 91 05:08:10 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!wyse!
 mtvnec!piemast!portal!cup.portal.com![e-mail]
Subject: ATARIs videogame-image
To: [e-mail]

Thorsten Dietrichkeit asked:

>Does Atari USA advertise Videogames? Here they don't. By the way,
>I don't regard the VCS 2600 as a real competitor to Sega and Nintendo but
>Lynx is better then the Gameboy.

Atari US used to advertise the Lynx fairly regularly, but I haven't seen
any Lynx ads (TV or print) for some time now.  You'd think that the
"pre-Christmas" season would be the time to advertise, but that's Atari
for you...

The problem of having, or not having, a "games machine" image seems to
be moot..    as far as most of the buying public is concerned, Atari
has no image at all.

Talk to the "average public" and you'll hear comments like: "Atari.. didn't
they go out of business years ago?"  or  "Oh yes.. Commodore bought them
out about 5 years ago."

At one time, an Atari Inc. advertising slogan was: "Have you played Atari
today?"  The name Atari was firmly connected in the public's mind as
being the premier game system on the market.  Kids used the name
generically, as in: "Lets go over to your house and play Atari"..
no matter what brand of game machine it actually was.

That was then...  this is now...

At the Consumer Electronics Show a couple of summers ago, I attended a
seminar on "entertainment software" which featured a panel of the CEOs
of the leading game producing software companies.  The talk was about
what was hot, what was selling, and what the future might bring..

And you know what..?   The word "Atari" wasn't even *mentioned* until more
than halfway through the seminar.  Even then it was "Other systems.. like
Atari."

Ok.. so some will say it's a good thing that the "games machine" image
has finally been lost...   does that mean it's better to own a computer
which has no image at all..?

BobR

------------------------------

Date: 11 Dec 91 03:17:26 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!sp
 ool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!marshall@arizona
 .edu (Marshall Harris (G.M.))
Subject: Canon BJ-10e
To: [e-mail]

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bob Malay) writes:

>What are the differences between the Canon BJ-10e and the Canon BJ-5? What
>do they emulate? Can they work with current ST software? How about with the
>Spectre GCR?? Does anybody own one of these?

>Bob Malay
I have a BJ10e. It works well with everything I've tried. Inf the worst
comes to the worst, try it with an Epson printer driver. If you want to
edit a driver, you need the BJ10e Programmer's Manual: ask Canon for it -
you may have to pay extra to get it; the user guide is useless.
If you can lay hands on the BJ300 manual, the commands of the BJ10e a
re a subset. Also, the BJ10e can emulate an IBM X24E (Proprinter, I think)i
so a Proprinter manual would be useful too.
Also, replacement Ink/print cartridges are a bit pricey, but some firms
supply a refill kit. there is one in the USA:
Graphics Utilities Inc.
Ft Fairfield, ME 04742
Ps: I idon't know the difference between the 10e and the new 10ex.


--
  _-_|\        [e-mail] (Marshall Harris)|ph:[phone]
 /     B <--+  Department of Computer Science        :fx:[phone]
 \_.-._/    |  University of Queensland, St.Lucia
      v     +--Brisbane, Queensland, 4072 AUSTRALIA (The Sub-Tropics)

------------------------------

Date: 11 Dec 91 00:44:53 GMT
From:
 ub!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!uhura.cc.rochester.edu![e-mail]
 (Ling Cherd Ho)
Subject: DC?
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Scott
 Willingham) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
>(Sharon L Skwara) writes:
>>
>>  True, my idea of that file to use mouse clicks for typewritten keys may
>>not be very useful to those who can type VERY quick, but you did bring up
>>a good point - anyone having problems with their hands may find some use for
>>it.  And it would just be nice to be able to do everything without needing
>>to hit the keyboard.  If I could program on the ST, I'd do it myself.
>>
>>  Here's how I was thinking it could be like:
>>
>>a GEM window opens, and inside is a replica of the keyboard - just click on
>>the key to send the character as if you would have pressed the key itself.
>>this way you could access all the Function keys, etc as well.
>
>While such a utility may be useful for people with disabilities, it
>is just silly for anyone else.  Even if you are a bad typist, how
>could you "poke keys" with a mouse pointer on a fascimile keyboard
>any faster than you could poke real keys with your finger on a real
>keyboard?  You still need to "hunt and peck" in the same inefficient
>way.  If you are insistant on using the mouse for text input, at least
>come up with an interface that is more suited to mouse movements than
>finger motions.  I'd recommend getting a program that teaches you to
>type.  It's a worthwhile investment of your time if you plan to use
>computers to any degree in the future.
>
>-- Scott Willingham

But it would still be useful for entering symbols, greek letters etc.
Who know if Stephen W.Hawking will choose to use at ST in the future!

..
   Ling Cherd
>.

------------------------------

Date: 11 Dec 91 00:35:44 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!munnari.o
 z.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au![e-mail] (Warwick
 Allison)
Subject: DC?
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Sharon L Skwara) writes:

>  True, my idea of that file to use mouse clicks for typewritten keys may
>not be very useful to those who can type VERY quick, but you did bring up
>a good point - anyone having problems with their hands may find some use for
>it.

A couple of challenged people I know find the mouse a very DIFFICULT tool
to use, whereas a keyboard stays still and has very discrete response.
A joystick is prefered over a mouse too.


Warwick
--
  _-_|\       [e-mail]           |
 /     *  <-- Computer Science Department,  |   HELLO, I'm a signature virus!
 \_.-._/      University of Queensland,     |          Join in the fun
      v       Brisbane, AUSTRALIA.          |       and copy me into yours!

------------------------------

Date: 11 Dec 91 02:35:18 GMT
From: orstcs!orstcs![e-mail] (John Thaanum)
Subject: DC?
To: [e-mail]

I would like to see something like this, with the entire character set,
because I can never find the control-keys I want.  It would be rather
cool to be able to access the characters for the fuji, Bob Dobbs, etc,
without having to search all up and down the keyboard.

Just a suggestion.


--
      +--------------------------------------------------------+
           John Thaanum          [e-mail]
        "A better tomorrow takes your best today..."  -Triumph
      +--------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: 10 Dec 91 20:04:45 GMT
From: zazen!doug.cae.wisc.edu![e-mail] (Gregory Carter)
Subject: General comparisons
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>
 [e-mail] (Ben Gilbert) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (LELAND) writes:
>....
>>Anyway, I for one would be interested in hearing about what is new and
>>interesting coming out for the ST. I understand Atari has implimented a
 blitter
>>chip on their new 68030 machines. Is this true? How does it work, and who is
>>writing programs that take advantage of it?
>>
>>Thanks in advance,
>>
>>
>>Darrell Leland
>
>Well I am not a hardware expert, but I do know that the BLiTTER has been
>installed in all the new machines, that includes the regular STE's, the
>Mega STE's, and the TT.  (only the last one is a 68030, the others are the
>usual 68000, with the Mega STE with a 16 MHz CPU...)

The TT has a blit chip? :)..Perchance WHY???

>
>       I believe that the BLiTTER is automatically utilized by GEM programs
>and such (somone else comment, I don't know the specifics), I have seen it
>on the Mega STE and the windows really do fly open and shut, maybe this is
>also because of the 16 MHz clock speed...  Anyway I'm SURE someone else
>knows about this more specifically.  :-)
>

The Blitter I think for most useful things is useless.  However, for
people that can afford LARGE screen displays and/or who like to do
multi patterned large bit fills in memory the Blitter I think really does
help...it really should be a specialty item I think, or an add on.

I have always wanted to get to the bottom of just WHAT the blitter can
and cannot do, but my first love is serial communications, not graphics so
I guess the best chip I know in my ST's memory map is the 68901.
I love that chip.  I think its because the documentation or memory map
for that chip was so HORRIBLE, that I ended up burst filling locations
and taking snap shots of memory to figure out where all the registers
were and what was what...(Gosh now that I think about it, ST tech documentation
hasn't gotten much better has it?)...

Otherwise I think of the blitter as added wieght in my machine sort of like my
Math CoProcessor...(68881 in my Mega STE) DEAD WEIGHT.

>       Also thanks for your 'peace' comments, it is nice to see someone who
>isn't violently slamming other computers or mega-praising their own, all
>computers have advantages and disadvantages...
>
>Ben Gilbert...                 ([e-mail])

I love to see violent slamming of computers, I think most people forget
what newsgroups are for sometimes.  Its for ANYONE who has a comment.

Regardless if it is appropriate OR NOT.

Its sort of a test of intelligence and wit, those who are sure, find the
information they need, those who don't, have to hunt for it...desperately,
unbeknowest to themselves they are being educated in the process.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Greg Carter - Undergraduate - United States Amatuer Wrestler (149.5)
          ONLY 8 months to go for State tournee - Kick Butt Time!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Employed: Computer Aided Engineering Center - University Wisconsin - Madison
 Major: Computer Science - Emphasis: System Design Tools, User Interfaces
           Phone Home: [phone]  -  Work: [phone]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 10 Dec 91 20:42:05 GMT
From: psinntp!ultb!ultb![e-mail] (D.R. Paradis )
Subject: more problems with pym.arc
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> J.J. Lehett <[e-mail]>
 writes:
>     Well, I got the file , unarced it to its 4 .lzh files, but only one
>of these will lharc correctly, the others give an sorry, cannot extract,
>invalid function number. This happens with both the unix lharc and the
>ST lharc I use.   Anyone have the same problem?
>
>------------------
>J.J. Lehett     : Atari's, puzzles, games, chaos, fractals, math....
>
>  - [e-mail]                 Penn State CAC Lab Operator
>  - [e-mail]          Atari 16/32 bit SIG Sysop

 I had no problem un Lharc'ing it once I swithed to "quantizing mode" or
something like that.  It's an option under the config screen on the
latest version of ArcShell.

  It's a GREAT DEMO!!

Bob

--
************************************************************************
*    Just because I'm a film major        |      < Net-address >       *
* doesn't mean I'm a Spielber-wanna-be....|                            *
*       I'm a Lynch-wanna-be!             |  [e-mail]  *

------------------------------

Date: 10 Dec 91 18:41:14 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!the
 lake![e-mail] (Steve Yelvington)
Subject: Sozobon V2.0 crc fault??
To: [e-mail]

[In article <[e-mail]>,
     [e-mail] (Sharon L Skwara) writes ... ]

 > In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
 writes:
 >>I extracted the files for scsrc20 from comp.sources.atari
 >>
 >>They _all_ fail crc when UUDecoding
 >>
 >>Is it just me???
 >>
 >>Rob.
 >
 >   It MAY be that the files (it's a LZH file right?) are compacted with the
 > newer LH5 method (so if you're using LHARC060 or LZH11321 or family, it
 > won't work).  I downloaded the files and believe had the same problem.
 > Get a copy of LZH201D or family (by this, I mean, LZH 200, etc) - bet you
 > it will work!


It's probably an LHARC problem (since uuencoding has nothing to do with
crc's), but the files are compressed with LH1 compression. They will
unpack just fine with a recent version of Questor's LHARC. This episode
demonstrates once again why LZH compression is to be avoided -- it's a
snake's nest of incompatibilities. I didn't pack the files; I merely
forwarded them in their original form.

Incidentally, the binaries and documentation have been posted to
comp.binaries.atari.st (also using LH1 compression) and I noticed that
they arrived on the network last night.

Just to complicate matters, Ian Lepore's highly modified version of
Sozobon C (1.33i) is ready for release and probably will become available
this weekend.

Although it bears a lower version number and does not support the new
Sozobon extended library format (long identifiers), Ian's version is in
many ways superior.

It has a very nice GEM-based self-installation program and everything
works from the GEM Desktop. It comes in a ZOO 2.1 archive that contains
the installation program and several self-extracting archives that are
automatically unpacked. It includes GEMFAST 1.7, docs, and GEM programming
examples.

 --
 Steve Yelvington, Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota     <[e-mail]>
 I ate two helpings of lutefisk ... and lived to tell the tale.

------------------------------

Date: 11 Dec 91 02:42:53 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgu
 di.oar.net!yfn.ysu.edu!ysub!psuvm!cunyvm!ndsuvm1!mtus5![e-mail]
 (Jeff McWilliams)
Subject: SUMMARY to "HELP: Mouse is flaky."
To: [e-mail]

You might also consider Best Electronics mouse, as they sell all the parts

for it as well, just in case anything goes wrong with the parts.



Jeff McWilliams
[e-mail]
GEnie:  J.MCWILLIAM3
"Atari 8-bit die hards never run out of power"

------------------------------

Date: 10 Dec 91 18:48:01 GMT
From:
 math.fu-berlin.de!fub!geminix.in-berlin.de!tertius.in-berlin.de!gaertner@uunet.
 uu.net
Subject: Tos 1.2 -> 1.4, should I do it?
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Andrew  Cullum)
 writes:
>
>   Over the last couple of weeks I've been considering upgrading from Tos 1.2
 to
> 1.4.  Unfortunately, I don't really know what 1.4 adds.  I know it lets you
> move files rather than just copy them, but heck, I can do that under Neodesk
> anyways.  Does 1.4 add much, or is it simply better?  I know that some
 programs
> don't like running under 1.2.  I've also wondered if I'd be better off waiting
> to see if 2.X is ever made available for plain old 1040 ST's.  Have any of you
> heard anything about this?  Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Andrew ([e-mail])

1.4 is a lot better and you should probably update.

But in the latest issue of a german magazine (ST computer 12/91) a company is
offering a card called TOS Extension Card with TOS 2.06 ROMS for the ST series.
Price :  DM 200.- (roughly  $ 100.- if you use an exchange rate 1:2 :-)

The company is:

  artifex computer GmbH
  Holbeinstr.60
  D - 6000 Frankfurt/Main 70

  Phone:  ++49 069 6312456
  Fax:    ++49 069 6312600


Ralf

DISCLAIMER: I'm not related to artifex in any way, only a simple Atari user.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

   Ralf Gaertner               [e-mail]
   FHI Berlin

------------------------------

Date: 10 Dec 91 15:33:02 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!gatech!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!uflorida!travis!jgj@
 arizona.edu (Jeff Jackson)
Subject: TOS 1.4 doesn't register double mouse click
To: [e-mail]

I had similar problems with Master Tracks Pro.  I called them up and
they mailed me an upgrade free of charge even though I had bought the
program years ago and handn't been in their maintenance program for
over a year.  That's the way to run a company.  I don't think the
problem is in TOS per se, but these programs do tons of illegal stuff
typically.
--
============================================================================
Jeffrey Glen Jackson  _|_Satan jeered, "You're dead meat Jesus, I'm gonna
[e-mail] |     bust you up tonight."
x5120                  | Jesus said, "Go ahead, make my day."
                   %%%%%%%%% -- Carman, "The Champion"

------------------------------

Date: 10 Dec 91 18:56:47 GMT
From:
 math.fu-berlin.de!fub!geminix.in-berlin.de!tertius.in-berlin.de!gaertner@uunet.
 uu.net
Subject: TOS 2.06 for ST's
To: [e-mail]


 Since this info may be interesting to a lot of people, I post it again (it
 was originally a reply).

 In the latest issue of a german magazine (ST computer 12/91) a company is
 offering a card called TOS Extension Card with TOS 2.06 ROMS for the ST series.
 Price :  DM 200.- (roughly  $ 100.- if you use an exchange rate 1:2 :-)

 The company is:

   artifex computer GmbH
   Holbeinstr.60
   D - 6000 Frankfurt/Main 70

   Phone:  ++49 069 6312456
   Fax:    ++49 069 6312600


 Ralf

 DISCLAIMER: I'm not related to artifex in any way, only a simple Atari user.

 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

    Ralf Gaertner               [e-mail]
    FHI Berlin

------------------------------

End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************