MR. LIGHTOLLER: Mr. Bell, chief engineer; Mr. Ferguson, second engineer; Mr. Hasketh, also second. That is all I know.
SENATOR SMITH: How many men constituted the crew?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Seamen, you are speaking of?
SENATOR SMITH: Yes.
MR. LIGHTOLLER: About 71 all told; officers and crew.
SENATOR SMITH: And seamen?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: On the trial test?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Oh, no sir. I am not speaking of the trial.
SENATOR SMITH: How many men constituted the crew on the trial tests?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: About 30 of the crew and about 30 of what we call runners.
SENATOR SMITH: Were there any guests on the boat?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: I believe there were; I could not say who.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know who they were?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Were there any of the officers of the White Star Line?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: I could not say with certainty, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: You do not recall seeing any of them?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: I do not recall; no, sir. I believe there were some on board, but I can not remember who they were. I was not brought in contact with them.
SENATOR SMITH: Was Mr. Ismay aboard?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Not to my knowledge, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you hear afterwards that he was on board?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: You can not recall any officer of the company that was?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: I mean any general officer?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Or director?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Was there anybody aboard representing the British Government?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Not to my knowledge, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Were there any other officers of other White Star Line boats?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Were there any other officers of any other line of boats?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: After the final test, what was done with the boat?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: We proceeded toward Southampton.
SENATOR SMITH: Immediately?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Almost immediately after taking on board a few things that had been left behind, which were required for the completion of the ship.
SENATOR SMITH: What?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: So far as I know, requisites down in the galley, cooking apparatus, a few chairs, and such things as that.
SENATOR SMITH: Was the life­saving equipment­­
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Oh, no, sir; nothing like that.
SENATOR SMITH: Was the life­saving equipment complete?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Of what did it consist?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: The necessary number of lifeboats.
SENATOR SMITH: I wish you would say how that is determined, if you can.
MR. LIGHTOLLER: By the number of people on board.
SENATOR SMITH: You do not know how many there are on board until you are ready to start?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Is it not determined by the number of accommodations rather than by the number of people who get aboard?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: There must be life­saving apparatus for everyone on board, regardless of accommodations.
SENATOR SMITH: Yes; but what I desire to know is whether in each stateroom on each deck, in all classes, whether there is any rule, and whether it was followed at that time, so far as you know, in equipping this boat with life preservers and life belts and anything else that might appropriately go into the rooms and be upon the decks of a boat of that character?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: She was perfectly complete throughout, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: How many lifeboats were there?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Sixteen.
SENATOR SMITH: All of the same type?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Consisting of 14 lifeboats, 2 emergency boats, and 4 collapsible boats.
SENATOR SMITH: Tell us whether they were new entirely.
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Entirely new.
SENATOR SMITH: And in their proper places?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: In their proper places.
SENATOR SMITH: With the necessary lowering apparatus?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Everything complete, examined by the officers of the ship.
SENATOR SMITH: Was a test of the lifeboats made before you sailed for Southampton?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: All the gear was tested.
SENATOR SMITH: Were the lifeboats lowered?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Under whose orders?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: The officers'; principally my orders.
SENATOR SMITH: Under your orders?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you see the work done?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: I did.
SENATOR SMITH: Tell just what was done.
MR. LIGHTOLLER: All the boats on the ship were swung out and those that I required were lowered down as far as I wanted them ­ some all the way down, and some dropped into the water.
SENATOR SMITH: I wish you would give the proportion that went into the water.
MR. LIGHTOLLER: About six.
SENATOR SMITH: Six into the water?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: And the others lowered?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Part of the way ­ as far as I thought necessary.
SENATOR SMITH: Part of the way?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: Of course, part of the way would not do anybody much good on a sinking ship. I assume you did that for the purpose of trying the gear, and not for the purpose of testing the security of the lifeboats?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: It is principally the gear that we test. The lifeboats we know to be all right.
SENATOR SMITH: These boats were lowered from what deck?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: From the boat deck.
SENATOR SMITH: Is that the sun deck?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: That is the top deck.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know how far it was from that top deck to the water?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Seventy feet.
SENATOR SMITH: What time did you reach Southampton?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: About midnight.
SENATOR SMITH: Of what night?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: I could not say.
SENATOR SMITH: Think it over.
MR. LIGHTOLLER: I think it was the morning of the 4th of April.
SENATOR SMITH: What makes you think it was the morning of the 4th?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Because we sailed on the 10th.
SENATOR SMITH: How long did it take to make the run to Southampton?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: About 24 hours.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you strike any heavy weather?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: How fast did you go?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: About 18 knots.
SENATOR SMITH: What was done when you reached Southampton?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: The ship was heeled for stability.
SENATOR SMITH: Just describe that.
MR. LIGHTOLLER: The builders knowing the exact weights on board, additional weights are placed on each side of the ship. A pendulum is suspended in the most convenient place in the ship with a plumb on the end of it, and a method of registering the difference with the plumb line; a number of men then transfer the weights from one side of the ship to the other, bringing all the weight on one side and transferring the whole of it back again; and with this, I believe the builders are able to draw up a stability scale.
SENATOR SMITH: From what part of the ship are these tests made?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: The weights carried over, you mean?
SENATOR SMITH: Yes. From the upper part?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: The "C" deck ­ the third deck down.
SENATOR SMITH: About the center of the ship?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Not quite the center of the ship.
SENATOR SMITH: Were there any tests made from the upper deck?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Not that I know of, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: What else was done at Southampton?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: We shipped coal, provisions, cargo was taken on board, passed the board of trade tests and survey.
SENATOR SMITH: Did some British officer make the board of trade test?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: The Southampton Board of Trade officer.
SENATOR SMITH: What did he do?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: He carried out the requisite tests required by the British Board of Trade.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you accompany him?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes; I was with him part of the time.
SENATOR SMITH: Who was this officer of the British Board of Trade?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Capt. Clark.
SENATOR SMITH: He was an officer?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: He was purely a representative of the British Board of Trade, appointed by the British Board of Trade, with post at the port of Southampton; surveyor.
SENATOR SMITH: He was assigned to Southampton?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: How old a man was he?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: About 45.
SENATOR SMITH: Of English nationality?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: Had you ever seen him before?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Frequently.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know whether he had any experience in marine service?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: All surveyors, I understand, have been in command. I know he had for a number of years.
SENATOR SMITH: What does that mean ­ that he had been "in command"?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: In command of a British ship; captain.
SENATOR SMITH: How much time did this officer spend on the ship?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: That I could not say, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: How much did he spend when he was with you?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: About four hours.
SENATOR SMITH: Then, did you turn him over to some other officer?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: To what other officer?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: I think it was the first.
SENATOR SMITH: What is his name?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Mr. Murdock.
SENATOR SMITH: Did he survive the Titanic disaster?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: No, sir. He was chief then.
SENATOR SMITH: He did not survive?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know whether any other office of the ship accompanied this inspector during his stay on board?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: That I could not say with certainty.
SENATOR SMITH: What is your best judgment about it?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: I should say the marine superintendent was with him the whole time.
SENATOR SMITH: The marine superintendent?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Of the White Star Line, at Southampton.
SENATOR SMITH: What is his name?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Capt. Steele.
SENATOR SMITH: How old a man is he?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: About 50.
SENATOR SMITH: Is he a commander?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Had you ever seen one of those ocean liners inspected by the British Board of Trade representative before?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Frequently.
SENATOR SMITH: How thorough are they about it?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Speaking of Capt. Clark, we call him a nuisance because he is so strict.
SENATOR SMITH: Capt. Clark?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Is he the marine officer?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: That is the board of trade representative.
SENATOR SMITH: In what respect is he a nuisance?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Because he makes us fork out every detail.
SENATOR SMITH: I should suppose you would be quite willing to do that?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Perfectly willing.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you mean by that that he would call attention to the absence of tools, implements and devices necessary for the ship's full equipment?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: No, sir. He would insist upon them all being absolutely brought out on deck every time.
SENATOR SMITH: On what?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Everything that contributes to the ship's equipment.
SENATOR SMITH: What would that consist of?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: The whole of the ship's life­saving equipment.
SENATOR SMITH: Life preservers?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Life preservers throughout the ship, all the boats turned out, uncovered, all the tanks examined, all the breakers examined, oars counted, boats turned out, rudders tried, all the davits tried ­ there was innumerable detail work.
SENATOR SMITH: And the boats lowered?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: The boats lowered, put in the water, and pulled out, and brought back again, and if he was not satisfied, sent back again.
SENATOR SMITH: And the ropes and chains tested?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: When he inspected your ship, about where would he find these life preservers?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Lifebelts in every room, in every compartment, where, as we say, there was habitation, where a man could live.
SENATOR SMITH: Would that include the steerage?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, undoubtedly; and the crews' quarters.
SENATOR SMITH: In the steerage, do they have rooms?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: And they are equipped?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: With the same apparatus for the preservation of life in an emergency as the first and second cabins?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Identically the same.
SENATOR SMITH: You used the term "life belt."
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: I wish you would describe a life belt.
MR. LIGHTOLLER: It consists of a series of pieces of corkallow me to show you by illustration ­ a hole is cut in there [illustrating] for the head to go through and this falls over front and back, and there are tapes from the back then tied around the front. It is a new idea and very effective, because no one can make a mistake in putting it on.
SENATOR SMITH: Is there cork on both sides?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: On both sides.
SENATOR SMITH: Are the arms free?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Free, absolutely.
SENATOR SMITH: And when in the water does this adhere or extend?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: It is tied to the body.
SENATOR SMITH: It is tied to the body?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you ever had one of these on?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you ever been into the sea with one of them?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Where?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: From the Titanic
SENATOR SMITH: In this recent collision?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: How long were you in the sea with a life belt on?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Between half an hour and an hour.
SENATOR SMITH: What time did you leave the ship?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: I didn't leave it.
SENATOR SMITH: Did the ship leave you?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you stay until the ship had departed entirely?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: I wish you would tell us whether the suction incidental to the sinking of this vessel was a great deterrent in making progress away from the boat?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: It was hardly noticeable.
SENATOR SMITH: From what point on the vessel did you leave it?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: On top of the officers' quarters
SENATOR SMITH: And where were the officers' quarters?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Immediately abaft the bridge.
SENATOR SMITH: Immediately abaft the bridge?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Abaft the wheelhouse.
SENATOR SMITH: Was that pretty well toward the top of the vessel?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Were the lifeboats gone when you found yourself without any footing?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: All except one.
SENATOR SMITH: Where was that one?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: In the tackles, trying to get it over.
SENATOR SMITH: Did not the tackle work readily?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: What delayed it?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: It was the third boat over by the same tackles.
SENATOR SMITH: The third boat over by the same tackles?
