SENATOR SMITH: Has the company, so far as you know, or any officer or director, any interest in the building company?
MR. FRANKLIN: I have never heard of any.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you any interest, personally?
MR. FRANKLIN: Not a cent.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know whether Mr. Ismay has any interest or not?
MR. FRANKLIN: I do not.
SENATOR SMITH: The headquarters of Harland & Wolff are in Belfast?
MR. FRANKLIN: In Belfast.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you an official roster of the officers and the crew of the Titanic when she sailed from Southampton?
MR. FRANKLIN: We have cabled over for that.
SENATOR SMITH: Will you furnish that to the committee?
MR. FRANKLIN: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: When may we expect it?
MR. FRANKLIN: I think the cable went on Saturday, Senator; but we have not been to our offices since.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you an official list of the officers and crew and passengers of the Titanic on the day she sailed from Southampton?
MR. FRANKLIN: No, sir; but we have cabled for the officers and crew in accordance with your suggestion.
SENATOR SMITH: And passengers?
MR. FRANKLIN: No.
SENATOR SMITH: I would like the passengers.
MR. FRANKLIN: We have a cable giving the names of the passengers. I am not sure whether that covers all the first class or not; but I will see that you get it.
SENATOR SMITH: I would like to have it cover all.
MR. FRANKLIN: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: All passengers, whether first, second, or third class.
MR. FRANKLIN: We will furnish to you the names of the officers, the crew, and the passengers.
SENATOR SMITH: Also such data as will enable the committee to know where they live, their full names, and their addresses. I believe this is one of the precautions taken by steamship companies, is it not, to insure accuracy?
MR. FRANKLIN: Those records are taken for the immigration authorities; but as a rule they are taken on the ship. They make an effort to get them before they sail, but they are never complete. They are completed on the ship, and I am very much afraid they were destroyed on the ship; but we can get you all we have.
SENATOR SMITH: You can get the sailings ­ the bookings ­ of passengers, can you not?
MR. FRANKLIN: We can get actual bookings. We can get the numbers from East Cort, Southampton, Cherbourg, and Queenstown in each class.
SENATOR SMITH: And the place that each was located on the ship, as far as stateroom is concerned, or otherwise?
MR. FRANKLIN: I do not believe you can do that.
SENATOR SMITH: I wish you would try.
MR. FRANKLIN: We will try.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know whether any record, document or part of the ship's equipment has been saved?
MR. FRANKLIN: I have not heard of a thing being saved.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know whether the log of the ship has been saved?
MR. FRANKLIN: I do not.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you heard anything about it?
MR. FRANKLIN: We have.
SENATOR SMITH: From whom?
MR. FRANKLIN: From the second officer.
SENATOR SMITH: From anyone else?
MR. FRANKLIN: But a minute. You had the officer on the stand yourself. That was the man I am referring to.
MR. BURLINGHAM: That was the third officer.
SENATOR SMITH: I interrogated Mr. Crawford.
MR. FRANKLIN: That is the only man we have heard from.
SENATOR SMITH: You have not asked, yourself?
MR. FRANKLIN: I have not had a word with any officer or any member of the crew.
SENATOR SMITH: Since the landing of the crew?
MR. FRANKLIN: Since the landing of the ship, except just to say, "Good morning."
SENATOR SMITH: Of the Carpathia?
MR. FRANKLIN: Of the Carpathia.
SENATOR SMITH: Can you obtain for the committee the plans and specifications for the construction of this ship?
MR. FRANKLIN: I can obtain whatever the Oceanic Steam Navigation Co., the owners of this ship, had. These steamers are built by Messrs. Harland & Wolff on a commission basis. But their specifications on that are drawn in the greatest detail that ordinarily applies in steamers constructed under contract.
SENATOR SMITH: Will you, through the officers of your company in England, endeavor to obtain from Harland & Wolff the plans and specifications that were followed in the construction of this ship?
MR. FRANKLIN: We will, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: You speak of the percentage basis.
MR. FRANKLIN: Right.
SENATOR SMITH: What do you mean by that?
MR. FRANKLIN: They charge us for each steamer all the cost, plus a certain percentage for commission to them.
SENATOR SMITH: That is, you adopt the plan and authorize the construction of the ship, holding yourselves responsible for its entire cost plus the profit or percentage which goes to the builders over and above its actual cost.
MR. FRANKLIN: That is quite right. Of course, they give us an estimate, as I understand it; they give the company ordering the ship an estimate of about what that cost is going to be.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you have an engineer of your own who supervises this work?
MR. FRANKLIN: That is all done abroad, and all controlled by the company directly owning the steamer, who no doubt have the engineer.
SENATOR SMITH: Who was Mr. Anderson that perished on the Titanic?
MR. FRANKLIN: I do not know any Mr. Anderson.
SENATOR SMITH: Andrews?
MR. FRANKLIN: Mr. Thomas Andrews was one of the most prominent men in the employ of Messrs. Harland & Wolff, who constructed the Titanic.
SENATOR SMITH: He was their representative aboard this ship?
MR. FRANKLIN: He was their representative aboard this ship.
SENATOR SMITH: On the trial trip?
MR. FRANKLIN: On the maiden voyage, I would say.
SENATOR SMITH: The maiden voyage?
MR. FRANKLIN: The maiden voyage.
SENATOR SMITH: And I assume during the trial tests?
MR. FRANKLIN: That I do not know; but I assume so. I do not know.
SENATOR SMITH: I think some one testified to the fact the other day.
MR. FRANKLIN: I do not know.
SENATOR SMITH: Are the steamers classed in any of the accepted classification societies?
MR. FRANKLIN: They are far in excess of any classification societies. They could be classified at any time. Whenever it has been necessary to class any of them, it has been done without any difficulty.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you carry insurance on the steamers?
MR. FRANKLIN: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: By whom are your steamers designed?
MR. FRANKLIN: These questions that you are asking me, about who designed the steamer, etc., I want you to fully understand that does not come under my jurisdiction at all.
SENATOR SMITH: I understand. I am seeking such information as you have.
MR. FRANKLIN: My information, from what I have seen myself, is that steamers are really designed by Messrs. Harland & Wolff's people, and submitted to Ismay and the company, and gone over carefully with them constantly, not only at the time of designing, but during the course of construction. They are given the utmost care and consideration from every point of view.
SENATOR SMITH: What was the cost of this ship to your company?
MR. FRANKLIN: In round numbers she cost one million five hundred and odd­­­
SENATOR SMITH: You do not mean one million­­
MR. FRANKLIN: Yes; I am giving the amount in pounds.
SENATOR SMITH: In pounds?
MR. FRANKLIN: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: One million five hundred and some odd thousand pounds.
SENATOR BOURNE; Is that complete?
MR. FRANKLIN: Yes; and equipped.
SENATOR SMITH: That included all its equipment, of every kind and character?
MR. FRANKLIN: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: If you know, will you tell the committee its tonnage capacity?
MR. FRANKLIN: I could not tell you its tonnage capacity. Its gross tonnage was about 45,000 tons.
SENATOR SMITH: Was that the largest ship ever built by your company?
MR. FRANKLIN: Yes, sir; this ship was of nearly 46,000 tons.
SENATOR SMITH: What is the next in point of tonnage?
MR. FRANKLIN: The Olympic, which is nearer 45,000 tons.
SENATOR SMITH: In addition to the plans and specifications which I have asked for, I think it desirable for the committee to know the stability data, in loaded condition and in light condition and in damaged condition, of the Titanic. Can you obtain this information?
MR. FRANKLIN: I can try to get it from Messrs. Harland & Wolff.
SENATOR SMITH: Of your own knowledge, can you answer that?
MR. FRANKLIN: No, sir; I could not do it. I can give you the gross tonnage now, exactly, if you desire it.
SENATOR SMITH: Please do so.
MR. FRANKLIN: Forty­six thousand three hundred and twenty­eight tons. Net registered tonnage, 21,831.
SENATOR SMITH: How many passengers would this ship accommodate, under your plan of operation, safely?
MR. FRANKLIN: In round numbers, I would say, for the first, second and third classes, about 2,200 or 2,300 passengers.
SENATOR SMITH: How many in the first class?
MR. FRANKLIN: I was referring to the Olympic, there, Senator, by mistake. I would make that about 2,500 passengers for the Titanic.
SENATOR SMITH: One moment, then. Does the figure you mention give the passenger capacity of the Olympic?
MR. FRANKLIN: Yes, sir; that gives the passenger capacity of the Olympic.
SENATOR SMITH: Give us the passenger capacity of the Titanic.
MR. FRANKLIN: I could not give you that, myself. I would say about 750 first, as you would load your passengers. If you had every berth occupied, she would carry more; but, as you would load here, about 750 first class, about 500 second class, and about 1,000 third class, or 1,200 third class. It would depend entirely on the way you sell your rooms in the first and second class.
SENATOR SMITH: Will you, for the information of the committee, tell us how this distinction is made in accommodations?
MR. FRANKLIN: The distinction is made in the first place, down below in the house; there are partitions or doors in the companionways.
SENATOR SMITH: What is that called?
MR. FRANKLIN: How do you mean? They are called bulkheads with doors.
SENATOR SMITH: Yes.
MR. FRANKLIN: Then, at certain places on the upper decks­­
SENATOR SMITH: Are there any berths down there?
MR. FRANKLIN: Yes; I am speaking of the places, now, below decks, where the cabins are.
SENATOR SMITH: Exactly.
MR. FRANKLIN: Then, on the upper decks, the space may be separated by a railing, or in some ships by well decks, which separates the houses.
SENATOR SMITH: Yes.
MR. FRANKLIN: That is the only thing. The whole equipment is entirely different. There are different accommodations, you know.
SENATOR SMITH: What is the difference in cost of transportation from Southampton to New York, if any, in these various classes?
MR. FRANKLIN: They all vary. Ships are rated. Each ship is rated with a minimum rate in the first and second class.
SENATOR SMITH: I refer particularly to the Titanic.
MR. FRANKLIN: All right, sir. You want to compare the Titanic to what ship?
SENATOR SMITH: I do not care to compare it to any ship. I would like to know, if you can tell me, what it costs a passenger to come from Southampton to New York first class, second class, and third class.
MR. FRANKLIN: That is what I was trying to get at.
SENATOR SMITH: By the Titanic.
MR. FRANKLIN: In the case of the Titanic, the lowest rate at which the Titanic would carry a first class passenger was $125. That was the minimum rate.
SENATOR SMITH: What does that include?
MR. FRANKLIN: That includes everything. It includes a berth, in with one or two other people, or something of that sort; not a room for a man to himself.
SENATOR SMITH: And it includes meals also?
MR. FRANKLIN: Also meals; everything. It includes everything. It is inclusive.
SENATOR SMITH: And service?
MR. FRANKLIN: And service. It includes everything. As far as the second­class passenger rate is concerned, I think it was $66 on the same basis, and including everything. The third­class rate was about $40.
SENATOR SMITH: What about the steerage?
MR. FRANKLIN: That is what I say; the third class or steerage rate was about $40. It varies.
SENATOR SMITH: And I should also like to ask about their accommodations. Can you describe them?
MR. FRANKLIN: They are separated in the same way, either below a deck or they are separated by a bulkhead with doors in it; and when you get to the upper deck, they have certain spaces on the ship which are separated by rails.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you ever see the Titanic?
MR. FRANKLIN: Never. I had never been aboard her.
SENATOR SMITH: You have accurate descriptions of her, I suppose?
MR. FRANKLIN: I have seen photographs of her, and so on.
SENATOR SMITH: I suppose your office had been fully advised as to her general character?
MR. FRANKLIN: Yes, but, of course, we had not been so fully advised about the Titanic, because we already had the Olympic, and the Titanic was practically a sister ship of the Olympic.
SENATOR SMITH: I think I understood you to say that you did not receive any wireless messages from the Carpathia at all until Capt. Rostron's message to the Cunard Line?
MR. FRANKLIN: In this way: We called up several times. We called the Navy Department at Newport and asked them if they could not ask the captain of the Carpathia by wireless through the Navy steamer that was going out there, the Salem, to try to get us some further information about the third­class and the crew aboard the Carpathia.
We were trying in all directions, through the Cunard line, through the Navy Department, through every source of information we could think of, to get information of the third class and crew on the Carpathia to get their names.
SENATOR SMITH: Is this Newport office a postal office of the Marconi company?
MR. FRANKLIN: No, sir; it is a United States torpedo station, as I understand it.
SENATOR SMITH: And you appealed through that station?
MR. FRANKLIN: We telephoned; yes, three or four times.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you receive any results?
MR. FRANKLIN: My recollection is that we got telephone replies to one or two of those messages ­ that the captains had reported that they had done everything they could. Here is one now:
Message delivered to Carpathia through Chester. Chester answers that complete list of freight and second­class passengers and crew sent ashore by Carpathia. Chester states will send list of first­class passengers when received from Carpathia. Chester in communication with Carpathia.
That is signed "Torpedo Station," and addressed "White Star Line, New York." It is from Newport, April 17, 1912.
SENATOR SMITH: I would like to have that marked for identification. The telegram referred to was marked by the stenographer "F.R.H. No. 1, April 22, 1912."
MR. FRANKLIN: Here is another addressed "White Star Line," from Newport, R.I., April 17, reading;
