Subcommittee of the Committee on Commerce, United States Senate,
Washington, D.C.
The subcommittee met at 10:15 o'clock a.m.
Present: Senators Smith (chairman), Burton, Perkins, and Fletcher.
SENATOR SMITH: I would like to know if Mr. Boxhall, the fourth officer of the Titanic is present?
MR. CORNELIUS: He is not here, sir. He is in bed.
SENATOR SMITH: I want to know, officially, that he is. Can you give any announcement as to Mr. Boxhall, Mr. Burlingham?
MR. BURLINGHAM: Mr. Lightoller says that he is still sick in bed, Mr. Chairman.
SENATOR SMITH: And unable to be present this morning?
MR. BURLINGHAM: He can not be here today. We hope he will be able to come tomorrow or the next day, at the latest.
SENATOR SMITH: Officer Lightoller, you know of the illness of Mr. Boxhall?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Your fellow officer?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: And you have seen him this morning?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: And you say he is unable to respond to the call of the committee this morning?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: As far as I know from the doctor; yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: That is all. I should like to have Mr. Marconi take the stand.
TESTIMONY OF MR. GUGLIELMO MARCONI Continued
SENATOR SMITH: You were sworn in New York last week, Mr. Marconi?
MR. MARCONI: I was not sworn, Senator.
SENATOR SMITH: I shall swear you this morning, with your consent.
MR. MARCONI: Certainly, Senator.
Mr. Marconi was duly sworn by the chairman.
SENATOR SMITH: In order that we may have in the record your official status, will you kindly state who you are, where you live, and your business?
MR. MARCONI: Guglielmo Marconi; permanent residence, London, England; chief engineer and chairman of Marconi's Wireless Telegraph Co. (Ltd.), of London, England.
SENATOR SMITH: As such officer of the English company what have you to do with the equipment of wireless apparatus on ocean vessels or shore stations, and what have you to do with the selection of operators in that work?
MR. MARCONI: I am consulted with regard to all technical details concerning the apparatus installed on ships generally, though I am not consulted with regard to the equipment of each particular ship.
Concerning the business arrangements made with shipowners, I am usually not in thorough touch with what is going on, for the reason that I am usually occupied with technical work. I travel about the world a great deal in order to carry on experiments and to inspect plants in various countries. For the business details and for the general management of the company, there is a managing director or general manager, who attends to all the work of engaging operators and of negotiating with shipowners and others for the use of wireless telegraphy.
SENATOR SMITH: Who is that man?
MR. MARCONI: Mr. Godfrey C. Isaacs.
SENATOR SMITH: Where does he reside?
MR. MARCONI: He resides in London. He left New York just before the accident.
SENATOR SMITH: Just before the Titanic accident?
MR. MARCONI: Yes; just before the Titanic accident.
SENATOR SMITH: Mr. Marconi, what is your official relationship to the British Government, if any?
MR. MARCONI: I have no official relationship with the British Government, except that I am called upon by them to advise them in matters of wireless telegraphy, generally, and also I have undertaken to be responsible for the design of the longdistance stations which they are erecting in various parts of the British Empire, in which my company will be interested for a period of at least 18 years.
SENATOR SMITH: Under special contract with the British Government?
MR. MARCONI: Under special contract with the British Government.
SENATOR SMITH: Under what department of the British Government is the work of wireless telegraphy undertaken?
MR. MARCONI: It is under the control of the British post office, the same department that controls the telegraph land lines of the United Kingdom.
SENATOR SMITH: And are you frequently brought in contact with the head of the post office department of England?
MR. MARCONI: Very frequently.
SENATOR SMITH: Is he the officer of the British Government who made this contract to which you refer?
MR. MARCONI: He is the officer responsible for it, who signed it; but the contract, I should explain, is still subject to the approval of Parliament.
SENATOR SMITH: Is this an exclusive contract?
MR. MARCONI: I do not follow what you mean.
SENATOR SMITH: Is this an exclusive contract?
MR. MARCONI: You mean a contract only
SENATOR SMITH: (interposing). I mean a contract that can only be made with you.
MR. MARCONI: For this particular purpose it is an exclusive contract.
SENATOR SMITH: And it runs for a period of 18 years?
MR. MARCONI: It runs over a period of 28 years, but the Government has the right to terminate it, on certain conditions, after 18 years.
SENATOR SMITH: Will you state to the committee, in general terms, the scope of that contract? I do not mean, now, to go into the exact details; I mean as to whether that contract requires you to install your apparatus and supervise its operation and management, or whether you receive compensation by an agreement which permits the management to fall under the control of the British officials?
MR. MARCONI: This contract provides that within a certain period of time I think it is two years we shall erect these stations for the Government of England in Cyprus, Egypt, India, South Africa, Singapore, and other places where the Government may decide later to erect them.
We are paid a certain lump sum per station for the expense of erection, and the station, before being accepted by the Government, has to satisfy certain requirements in regard to speed of transmission, effectiveness, and reliability.
SENATOR SMITH: Does this contract cover any charge made by you for the use of patented devices?
MR. MARCONI: It does; and, if I may explain, a sum which should represent some manufacturing profit, payable, I think, partly before and partly on the completion of each plant. My company has to run each station for six months on behalf of the Government. After six months the Government takes over the station; and for a period of 28 years the Government pays to my company 10 per cent of the gross receipts at each station and pays all expenses.
SENATOR SMITH: Are these gross receipts from Government business as well as commercial business?
MR. MARCONI: From all business; but they can terminate this agreement in 18 years if they do not want to use any of my patented inventions. If you will allow me to volunteer, we have another contract in regard to ship and shore stations in England. These are longdistance stations and are generally intended for communication between country and country more than for communication between shore and ship.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you the exclusive right to equip the public or governmental stations of Great Britain with your system of wireless telegraphy?
MR. MARCONI: We have that right in so far as the courts uphold the patents under which wireless telegraphy is worked in England. We have some particular arrangements with the Government also.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you any contract of a similar character with the Government of Germany?
MR. MARCONI: We have not.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you had?
MR. MARCONI: No; we have not.
SENATOR SMITH: And have you had any dealings with the Government of the German Empire?
MR. MARCONI: We have had some dealings with the Government of Germany. We have equipped lightships for them. During recent years we have come to an agreement with the German company to work wireless telegraphy jointly on ships of the German mercantile marine. This company is now in operation and is fitting German ships generally.
SENATOR SMITH: And works in harmony with your appliances?
MR. MARCONI: Works in harmony with us. We have a partition of the receipts of the profits.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you any contract of character similar to the ones with the British Government and the German Government, which you have just described, with any other countries of the world?
MR. MARCONI: We have an exclusive contract with the Government of Italy; at least, I should say that I have.
SENATOR SMITH: You personally?
MR. MARCONI: Personally; yes.
SENATOR SMITH: What kind of a contract is that?
MR. MARCONI: In consideration of not being charged for patent rights in regard to the use of the system they undertake to equip their shore stations and their colonies with my apparatus and use it exclusively for commercial purposes, being free for war and navy purposes to use anything they like.
SENATOR SMITH: Is that the only other Government with which you or your companies have any contract of that kind?
MR. MARCONI: No; there are several other Governments. There is the Government of the Dominion of Canada, with which we have a very comprehensive contract as regards ship stations on the North Atlantic coast, on the island of Newfoundland, and up the St. Lawrence, and also as regards the station for communicating direct with England across the Atlantic. I am not acquainted with the details of this contract, but I think it is an important contract.
SENATOR SMITH: With whom was it made the Canadian officials or the British officials?
MR. MARCONI: It was made with the Canadian Government.
SENATOR SMITH: And it runs over a period of years?
MR. MARCONI: It runs over a period of years a considerable period of years I should say over 10 years, at least.
SENATOR SMITH: Is it now in force?
MR. MARCONI: It is now in force.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you constructed these stations?
MR. MARCONI: We have constructed a large proportion of them.
SENATOR SMITH: As I understand, all these arrangements that you have detailed are now in force?
MR. MARCONI: They are now in force, so far as I know.
SENATOR SMITH: With what other countries have you contracts?
MR. MARCONI: We have an exclusive contract with the Government of Newfoundland in regard to the stations on the coast of Newfoundland, and that contract has a number of years to run.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you established stations up there?
MR. MARCONI: We have a number of stations up there.
SENATOR SMITH: Where are they located?
MR. MARCONI: One north of St. Johns, one at Cape Race, one in the Belle Isle Straits, one at Cape Ray, and one or two others, the location of which I do not remember.
SENATOR SMITH: What is the type of apparatus installed in the Cape Race office?
MR. MARCONI: I should call it a type of ship longdistance apparatus.
SENATOR SMITH: How far can you send the messages with accuracy from that station?
MR. MARCONI: From that station to a properly equipped ship I should say, we could send messages with accuracy over 400 or 500 miles during the daytime and probably considerably over 1,000 miles during the nighttime.
SENATOR SMITH: To a ship equipped like the Titanic, would that apparatus at Cape Race operate for a long distance, and with accuracy?
MR. MARCONI: Yes, sir; with the Titanic I should say it would do about its best.
SENATOR SMITH: How about the Carpathia?
MR. MARCONI: With the Carpathia it would be good for a smaller distance, but I certainly think over 300 miles in the daytime.
SENATOR SMITH: To a ship like the Olympic
MR. MARCONI: It would do as well as it would do with the Titanic.
SENATOR SMITH: At night, you could communicate with the Olympic from Cape Race how far?
MR. MARCONI: I should say, as a general rule, 1,200 miles or 1,500 miles.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know with what apparatus the vessel Frankfurt, of the North German Lloyd Line, is equipped?
MR. MARCONI: I do not know exactly with what it is equipped, but I think it is equipped with an efficient apparatus, because they are very careful what they put on board.
SENATOR SMITH: The Germans are?
MR. MARCONI: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: What is the wireless equipment of the steamship Californian?
MR. MARCONI: I am not aware of the exact type of apparatus; I think it is a mediumdistance apparatus.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know of a Canadian vessel, of the Canadian Pacific Railway, called the Mount Temple?
MR. MARCONI: I have heard of her.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know how she is equipped with wireless?
MR. MARCONI: I think she is equipped with a medium or shortdistance apparatus.
SENATOR SMITH: In that event, how far could she communicate accurately?
MR. MARCONI: Two hundred miles.
SENATOR SMITH: By day or night?
MR. MARCONI: By day.
SENATOR SMITH: How far by night?
MR. MARCONI: Probably 500 or 600 miles by night, but not very often.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you regard the Cape Race Station as one of the best stations you have on the coast of Newfoundland?
MR. MARCONI: I regard it as a good station. It must be remembered that it was equipped several years ago, and that the improvements in wireless have been made very rapidly lately.
SENATOR SMITH: How did you happen to put a station at Cape Race?
MR. MARCONI: Because the Canadian Government, the Newfoundland government, and the shipowners who use the St. Lawrence route, were very anxious to have a station there, and also the transAtlantic, New York to Liverpool interests.
SENATOR SMITH: Why were they anxious?
MR. MARCONI: Because it would be useful for them in communicating information in regard to where they were, in regard to fogs, and in regard to ice.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know the position of the Titanic in the North Atlantic when she sank?
MR. MARCONI: I read of her position and it has been pointed out to me. I do not remember the actual position in degrees and minutes.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you any means of telling how far the Titanic was from your Cape Race station?
MR. MARCONI: I have no direct means of telling.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you any impression that the Cape Race station would be the natural coast station to pick up the messages from the Titanic?
MR. MARCONI: I think so. I would prefer to have my memory refreshed as to the exact position.
SENATOR FLETCHER: 4146' north; 5014' west.
MR. MARCONI: Yes; I think Cape Race would be the best station.
SENATOR SMITH: That would be the natural station to pick up the communications from a ship located about the place where the Titanic sank?
MR. MARCONI: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: What is the greatest distance over which you have ever successfully operated your wireless telegraphy?
MR. MARCONI: You mean between ship and shore?
SENATOR SMITH: No; between coast and coast?
MR. MARCONI: From Clifton, in Ireland, to Buenos Aires, in South America.
SENATOR SMITH: I did not understand the other day in New York what the distance was from Ireland, at the point you speak of, to the Argentine, where this message was received.
