SENATOR SMITH: If his mouth were to be closed, if the mouth of this operator were to be closed so that the details of that catastrophe could not be printed, would not the English Government and the British people be deprived of the knowledge which was in the exclusive possession of this operator?
MR. MARCONI: With every deference, I do not quite understand your question or what you are referring to.
SENATOR SMITH: I have not disclosed my whole purpose, and I am not going to. I am just seeking to get what you know about it.
MR. MARCONI: Yes; but, with every deference, I believe you are assuming I may understand you wrongly that I wished or instructed this man to withhold information.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you know of the attempt of the President of the United States to communicate with the Carpathia through the Chester.
MR. MARCONI: Will you allow me to finish my answer?
SENATOR SMITH: Certainly.
MR. MARCONI: I say emphatically that is not a fact.
SENATOR SMITH: What is not a fact?
MR. MARCONI: That I tried to withhold any information.
SENATOR SMITH: I have not said that you tried to withhold it. I hope you will not draw any such inference. I am just asking if you did it.
MR. MARCONI: My answer is no.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know of the attempt of the President of the United States to get into communication with the wireless operator of the Carpathia through the Government station on the Chester?
MR. MARCONI: I heard of that through the papers, and when I got on board the Carpathia that night I asked the surviving operator
SENATOR SMITH: (interposing). Bride?
MR. MARCONI: Yes; Bride what he knew about it. He stated and, of course, I understand he will be called to give any further information on the matter that the Chester had asked him for a repetition of the list of passengers' names.
SENATOR SMITH: At what time?
MR. MARCONI: Of the survivors' names.
SENATOR SMITH: I understand; but at what time was the request made?
MR. MARCONI: I do not know.
SENATOR SMITH: All right.
MR. MARCONI: I did not go into that detail.
SENATOR SMITH: Very well; go on.
MR. MARCONI: And that he told the Chester that this list had already been sent and acknowledged by a shore station.
SENATOR SMITH: And that he need not answer any further inquiry from the Chester?
MR. MARCONI: No; I understand he gave him this information, and I understand he gave him some additional names. I asked him also in regard to the inquiry which it was stated had been sent on behalf of the President of the United States, and he told me that he had received no such inquiry; that if he had received it he certainly would have answered it, but he had not received any such inquiry.
SENATOR SMITH: You are unable to fix the time when he said that he had not received such an inquiry, or when he replied that he had already furnished the information as to those surviving? You are unable to fix that time?
MR. MARCONI: Yes. I was unable to fix the time; but my question covered the whole time, so far as I meant it, in which the Carpathia was operating; that is, the whole time from the rescuing of the passengers to her arrival in New York.
SENATOR SMITH: You say that the operator on the Carpathia, Mr. Cottam, exercised, by your permission
MR. MARCONI: I beg your pardon; not by my permission.
SENATOR SMITH: (continuing). The right to sell the story which came to him in his capacity as an operator, for his own pecuniary benefit?
MR. MARCONI: I mean, sell a story.
SENATOR SMITH: A story; but it may have turned out to be "the story."
MR. MARCONI: Not necessarily.
SENATOR SMITH: Not necessarily; but it may have done so?
MR. MARCONI: It may have done so.
SENATOR SMITH: It depended on how closemouthed he was from the time he conceived the idea of selling his story, did it not; and it might have been exclusive?
MR. MARCONI: It was not the intention that it should be exclusive.
SENATOR SMITH: It was not your intention?
MR. MARCONI: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Was it your intention that the Cottam story or the Bride story should be exclusive?
MR. MARCONI: Certainly not; and I regret it, and I have expressed that already, that they had not said something already, something more explanatory, before they reached New York.
SENATOR SMITH: You have said that from Sunday night, when you were first apprised of this calamity, you frequently called up your office; that information was lacking; that the public were clamoring for details; that the world was interested in this information; that you were unable to get it satisfactorily. I would like to have you give the committee your best judgment as to whether the custom exercised by Binns in the Republic disaster and the privilege you gave to Cottam in the Titanic disaster had anything to do with your failure to get this information and the failure of the world to be apprised of the details of this horror. Before you answer I want that question read.
The question was read by the stenographer.
MR. MARCONI: In my opinion, it had not, because these operators were never instructed not to give out news.
SENATOR SMITH: Why did they not give it out?
MR. MARCONI: They should be able to answer that question themselves, I should say.
SENATOR SMITH: You are the head of the wireless system, a recognized authority, a man who gives it your constant care, and a man of reputation and character, for whom the people have the highest respect, and I would like to have your judgment about it.
MR. MARCONI: About what?
SENATOR SMITH: You are connected up with this matter through these intercepted radiograms, your name is mentioned, an injunction seems to have arrived at the Carpathia coming from you and your manager or chief engineer, and I would like the information I have asked for in that question, if you can give it.
MR. MARCONI: I wish to respectfully state that I have already testified that I have no knowledge whatever about any of these messages which were sent or are alleged to have been sent to the operator on the Carpathia.
SENATOR SMITH: And you have not talked with Mr. Sammis about it?
MR. MARCONI: I state on oath that I did not talk to him on any single occasion.
SENATOR SMITH: At the time or since?
MR. MARCONI: At the time or since.
SENATOR SMITH: You have seen the rumors of this matter, have you not, in the papers?
MR. MARCONI: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: I have not seen those rumors; but after seeing those rumors did you talk with Sammis about the matter?
MR. MARCONI: I saw Mr. Sammis for a few moments some time ago, and I told him I said, "You know that I did not authorize that message."
SENATOR SMITH: When did you tell him that?
MR. MARCONI: I told him that since the survivors were landed. I do not remember the exact date.
SENATOR SMITH: About what time?
MR. MARCONI: Three or four days ago, I should say.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you talked with him about it since?
MR. MARCONI: No, sir. I should state in explanation also of this matter
SENATOR SMITH: Please do; I would like to have you, in your own way. I am not seeking to embarrass you, at all. I simply feel it my duty to get the information I have asked for.
MR. MARCONI: What I mean and intended when I stated to the operator that he could take something for a story or for an account of the disaster was that newspapers and reporters would be so interested in what he had to say, and in himself personally, in view of the fact especially that Bride had behaved in such a brave and gallant manner, that, without withholding any general information, they would be ready to pay him an amount for a story or description which he could give them.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you finished?
MR. MARCONI: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Mr. Marconi, did you expect the operator to syndicate this information, or to give it exclusively to one newspaper?
MR. MARCONI: I did not expect him to give it exclusively.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you expect him to put the story up to the highest bidder?
MR. MARCONI: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you expect him to favor any particular news agency?
MR. MARCONI: I did not.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you expect him to sell it to the Associated Press?
MR. MARCONI: No.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you expect him to sell it to the other press associations, or any of them either of them?
MR. MARCONI: No; I did not.
SENATOR SMITH: You expected that he would impart his information to some newspaper?
MR. MARCONI: To some newspaper. I did not care which.
SENATOR SMITH: And that newspaper could give him what it chose to give him for an exclusive story containing the details of the Titanic disaster?
MR. MARCONI: No; there was no idea of an exclusive story in my mind.
SENATOR SMITH: If I understand you correctly, you did not seek to control the operator, at all, in what he would say or to whom he would say it?
MR. MARCONI: No; I did not.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know what the use of the words, "Arranged for your exclusive story for dollars in four figures, Mr. Marconi agreeing. Say nothing until you see me. J. M. Sammis," would indicate? What did he mean by "four figures"?
MR. MARCONI: I suppose it was something over a thousand dollars; but if you will allow me to repeat again
SENATOR SMITH: Please do. I wish you would say anything you want to about it.
MR. MARCONI: (continuing). For the fourth or fifth or sixth time, I say that I know nothing whatever about those messages.
SENATOR SMITH: And you understand I am not saying that you do.
MR. MARCONI: Thank you.
SENATOR SMITH: I am simply inquiring. Do you know whether Cottam or Bride sold their story?
MR. MARCONI: I think they received remuneration for it, and that may be called "sold," I presume. I mean that they were paid for it.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know how much they got?
MR. MARCONI: I do not know how much Cottam got
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know how much Bride got?
MR. MARCONI: I was told that Bride got $500.
SENATOR SMITH: From whom?
MR. MARCONI: From the New York Times.
SENATOR SMITH: Who told you that?
MR. MARCONI: I think it was Mr. Bottomley.
SENATOR SMITH: The general manager of your company?
MR. MARCONI: Yes. I should also say, I believe, one of the editors of the New York Times, either Mr. Ochs or Mr. Vanander.
SENATOR SMITH: Was it expected or did any officer of your company receive any portion of it, within your knowledge?
MR. MARCONI: No; I do not believe anyone did receive any portion of it.
SENATOR SMITH: You say you do not believe it. Have you heard that anyone did?
MR. MARCONI: No; I have not, but if I did hear it I would think it would be an extraordinary thing and absolutely wrong.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know what Cottam got for his story?
MR. MARCONI: I do not.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know who purchased this story?
MR. MARCONI: I think the New York Times got his story.
SENATOR SMITH: The same paper?
MR. MARCONI: The same paper. But I am not absolutely certain of that.
SENATOR SMITH: Are you yourself interested in any way in the New York Times?
MR. MARCONI: No.
SENATOR SMITH: Is Mr. Bottomley?
MR. MARCONI: I do not think he is.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know whether he is or not?
MR. MARCONI: Well, perhaps I am wrong; but I have no knowledge in the matter.
SENATOR SMITH: You do not know anything about it.
MR. MARCONI: I do not know anything about it.
SENATOR SMITH: Is Mr. Sammis interested in the New York Times?
MR. MARCONI: I do not know.
SENATOR SMITH: Is any officer of the Marconi Co. interested in the New York Times?
MR. MARCONI: I do not know. I do not think so, because if anyone was I would probably hear of it in some way.
SENATOR SMITH: Is any director of your company interested in the New York Times?
MR. MARCONI: No.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you heard from any source any statement given as to the amount Cottam received for his story?
MR. MARCONI: No; I have not.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you see his story?
MR. MARCONI: I saw the headlines of his story; I did not read it through.
SENATOR SMITH: In the New York Times?
MR. MARCONI: In the Times.
SENATOR SMITH: When?
MR. MARCONI: I supposed on the day it was published.
SENATOR SMITH: What day was it published?
MR. MARCONI: I can not remember that.
SENATOR SMITH: The day following the arrival of the Carpathia?
MR. MARCONI: I presume it was that day, but I can not say definitely.
SENATOR SMITH: So they sold the story immediately after they arrived, and it was printed the next morning?
MR. MARCONI : So I understand.
SENATOR SMITH: All of which was done with your permission?
MR. MARCONI : I did not give my permission for that.
SENATOR SMITH: You did not oppose it?
MR. MARCONI: I knew nothing about it. I only said that he could obtain payment for an article.
SENATOR SMITH: That is rather a consent, is it not?
MR. MARCONI: It is consent to the fact of obtaining payment nothing else.
SENATOR SMITH: It is consent, notwithstanding it violates the laws of the country in which you live.
MR. MARCONI: It is not a violation of the laws of the country in which I live, with every respect.
SENATOR SMITH: I thought giving out information was made a criminal offense in England.
MR. MARCONI: I am afraid you misunderstood my previous answer. Giving out information of any message that passed through the hands of an operator would be a criminal offense.
SENATOR SMITH: This man gave it out, did he not?
MR. MARCONI: No; he did not give any information of any message that passed through his hands.
SENATOR FLETCHER: He means messages from other parties.
MR. MARCONI: Suppose the United States Navy had done that. Of course it is a Government department and would be privileged. But suppose an operator on another ship had given out messages that he had intercepted; he would be liable to prosecution.
SENATOR SMITH: The Titanic was a ship of the White Star Line?
MR. MARCONI: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: The White Star Line is a British company?
MR. MARCONI: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: The information that Cottam received over the wireless was from the operator of the Titanic. That information was imparted in New York the day following the arrival of the Carpathia, for $500, was it not?
MR. MARCONI: Will you repeat that?
The stenographer repeated the question as above recorded.
SENATOR SMITH: Pardon me. We do not want to leave you in any doubt at all, Mr. Marconi. All the information regarding the sinking of the Titanic, at least, the official information, was received by the operator of the Carpathia from the operator of the Titanic?
MR. MARCONI: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: That was a part of the details of this horror, was it not?
MR. MARCONI: It was; but
SENATOR SMITH: Now, one moment, and then I will let you explain. I want to complete my question. That information you consented that your operators should give out?
