SENATOR FLETCHER: Up to about that time the Californian was drifting?
MR. GILL: Yes, sir; with her engines stopped.
SENATOR FLETCHER: And you saw the rockets along about 2 o'clock or before 2?
MR. GILL: About 12:30; at one bell, sir.
SENATOR FLETCHER: About 12:30 you began first to see the rockets?
MR. GILL: Yes, sir; at first, when I saw it was not very plain.
SENATOR FLETCHER: Off on your starboard bow?
MR. GILL: Yes, sir.
SENATOR FLETCHER: What kind of rockets were they? What did they look like?
MR. GILL: They looked to me to be pale blue, or white.
SENATOR FLETCHER: Which, pale blue or white?
MR. GILL: It would be apt to be a very clear blue; I would catch it when it was dying. I did not catch the exact tint, but I reckon it was white.
SENATOR FLETCHER: Did it look as if the rocket had been sent up and the explosion had taken place in the air and the stars spangled out?
MR. GILL: Yes, sir; the stars spangled out. I could not say about the stars. I say, I caught the tail end of the rocket.
SENATOR FLETCHER: Did you see any lights on the steamer where the rockets were sent up?
MR. GILL: No, sir; no sign of the steamer at the time.
SENATOR FLETCHER: You could not see any lights at all?
MR. GILL: No, sir.
SENATOR FLETCHER: You did not see any Morsing from that steamer?
MR. GILL: No, sir.
SENATOR FLETCHER: Did you hear any noise; escaping steam or anything of that sort?
MR. GILL: No, sir.
SENATOR FLETCHER: There was not much noise on the Californian at that time?
MR. GILL: No, sir; not much noise on the ship.
SENATOR FLETCHER: What sort of night was it?
MR. GILL: It was a fine night.
SENATOR FLETCHER: No fog?
MR. GILL: No, sir; a clear night; a very clear night.
SENATOR FLETCHER: You estimate that the rockets went up not over 20 miles away from the Californian?
MR. GILL: It could not be 20 miles away, sir. I could not see 20 miles away. I seen the ship, and she had not had time to get 20 miles away by the time I got on deck again.
SENATOR FLETCHER: As I understand, you never did see the ship, did you?
MR. GILL: No, sir; not without the one I seen, the big ship, that I told my mate was a German boat ­ not without that was the ship in question, the Titanic.
SENATOR FLETCHER: You think it may have been the Titanic?
MR. GILL: I am of the general opinion that the crew is, that she was the Titanic.
SENATOR FLETCHER: When did you first see her?
MR. GILL: At four minutes after 12 exactly.
SENATOR FLETCHER: How do you know that?
MR. GILL: Because at five minutes to 12 I was working with the fourth engineer at a pump that kicked, that would not work, and while we were interested in our work we forgot the time; and I looked up, and I said, "It is five minutes to 12. I haven't called my mate, Mr. Wooten. I will go call him." And I got to the ladder to climb out of the engine room and get on deck. That taken me one minute, to get up there.
SENATOR FLETCHER: Was this ship moving at that time?
MR. GILL: I did not take particular notice of it, sir, with the rushing to call my mate. I went along the deck. It taken me about a minute, going along the deck, to get to the hatch I had to go down, and I could see her as I walked along the deck. Suppose I am going forward, now; I could see her over there [indicating], a big ship, and a couple of rows of lights; so that I knew it was not any small craft. It was no tramp. I did not suppose it would be a "Star" boat. I reckoned she must be a German boat. So I dived down the hatch, and as I turned around in the hatch I could not see her, so you can guess the latitude she was in. As I stood on the hatch, with my back turned, I could not see the ship. Then I went and called my mate, and that is the last I saw of it.
SENATOR FLETCHER: How long after that was it before you saw the rockets go up?
MR. GILL: About 35 minutes, sir; a little over half an hour.
SENATOR FLETCHER: Did you observe the rockets go up in the direction this ship was as you first saw her, from where the Californian was?
MR. GILL: It was more abeam, sir; more broadside of the ship.
SENATOR FLETCHER: In the meantime the Californian, as I understand, was drifting?
MR. GILL: Yes, sir.
SENATOR FLETCHER: She was not under way at all?
MR. GILL: No, sir.
SENATOR FLETCHER: Was the ship too far away when you saw the rockets going up, for you to see the lights on her?
MR. GILL: Yes, sir; no sign of the ship.
SENATOR FLETCHER: What time was it when you heard these officers discussing this matter that was mentioned in this statement?
MR. GILL: Twenty minutes past 8 on Monday morning.
SENATOR FLETCHER: Have you been discharged, or dismissed by the Californian?
MR. GILL: No, sir. I belong to the ship now.
SENATOR SMITH: Mr. Gill, did you ever see the North German­Lloyd ship Frankfurt?
MR. GILL: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: You did not see it that night or day?
MR. GILL: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: What made you think that this ship you saw, or thought you saw, was a German ship?
MR. GILL: Because the German ship would be heading to New York at about that time.
SENATOR SMITH: Heading for New York?
MR. GILL: Or from New York. It is in that vicinity we meet those boats.
SENATOR SMITH: I think that is all. You may be excused; but hold yourself subject to the committee's orders. I made a statement a little while ago, and received one from Mr. Franklin [reading]:
LONDON, April 26, 1912 ­ Rp. 15.
Senator Smith, Chairman Titanic Inquiry, Washington:
Complaints here British subjects not receiving sufficient consideration in inquiry. Greatly appreciate assurance denying this.
Reynolds Newspaper, London.
I do not think this calls for any denial upon my part. The chief representative of the company whose officials and employees are the only British subjects here, has said more than it would be proper for any member of the subcommittee to say, and I rest upon that statement. We will now take a recess until 3 o'clock.
Thereupon, at 1:20 o'clock p.m., a recess was taken until 3 o'clock p.m.
AFTER RECESS.
The committee met at 3 o'clock p. m., pursuant to the taking of recess.
SENATOR SMITH: I want the reporter to put into the record the following note:
Note by the navy­yard operator. Carpathia would at no time acknowledge receipt of a message from Navy ships or stations. This station called them at 5:30 p.m., 4­18­12, when she was trying to get into communication with New York stations, but her operator refused to take any assistance from us. This was the only station she could work at that time, as no other station could hear her. YOUNG, Operator, U.S. Wireless Station, Navy Yard, New York
Let that be marked for identification.
The note referred to was marked "Exhibit H.H. P. No. 1, April 26, 1912."
TESTIMONY OF CAPT. STANLEY LORD
The witness was sworn by the chairman.
SENATOR SMITH: What is your full name and where do you reside?
MR. LORD: Stanley Lord, Liverpool, England
SENATOR SMITH: What age are you, Captain?
MR. LORD: Thirty­five, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: What is your business?
MR. LORD: Master mariner.
SENATOR SMITH: How long have you been a mariner?
MR. LORD: Twenty years.
SENATOR SMITH: In what ships have you sailed?
MR. LORD: As master?
SENATOR SMITH: As master.
MR. LORD: The Antillian, the Louisianian, the William Cliff, and the Californian.
SENATOR SMITH: Where were you in your ship on the 14th day of April last?
MR. LORD: At what time?
SENATOR SMITH: At 6 o'clock in the morning of that day?
MR. LORD: On the 14th of April at 6 o'clock we have not got it down here, sir. [Witness looking at a book, afterwards identified as the log of the Californian.] I can give it to you at 9:40 o'clock and at noon.
SENATOR SMITH: Give it to me at 9:40.
MR. LORD: 42, 47.
SENATOR SMITH: A little more specifically, please.
MR. LORD: 42 north and 47 west.
SENATOR SMITH: Are you reading from the log of the Californian?
MR. LORD: The Californian; the ship's log, yes.
SENATOR SMITH: Where were you when you made the next entry in the log?
MR. LORD: As to position?
SENATOR SMITH: Yes, sir.
MR. LORD: 42, 5 and 57.
SENATOR SMITH: At what time?
MR. LORD: 10:21 o'clock.
SENATOR SMITH: The same date?
MR. LORD: The same date, the 14th of April.
SENATOR SMITH: What other entries have you in the log, of your position on that date?
MR. LORD: At 6:30.
SENATOR SMITH: 6:30. p.m.?
MR. LORD: Yes; we had , 42-degrees 5-minutes and 49-degrees 10-minutes, as having passed two large icebergs.
SENATOR SMITH: What is the next entry?
MR. LORD: There is no position given there. The next entry was 7:15 o'clock. "Passed one large iceberg and two more in sight to the southward."
SENATOR SMITH: Where were you at that time?
MR. LORD: No position entered here, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you attempt to communicate with the vessel Titanic on Sunday?
MR. LORD: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: At what time of the day?
MR. LORD: Ten minutes to 11.
SENATOR SMITH: A. m.?
MR. LORD: P.m.
SENATOR SMITH: That is ship's time.
MR. LORD: At the ship's time for 47-degrees 25-minutes longitude.
SENATOR SMITH: That was of longitude 47-degrees 25-minutes west?
MR. LORD: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: What was that communication?
MR. LORD: We told them we were stopped and surrounded by ice.
SENATOR SMITH: Did the Titanic acknowledge that message?
MR. LORD: Yes, sir; I believe he told the operator he had read it, and told him to shut up, or stand by, or something; that he was busy.
SENATOR SMITH: That was the Titanic's reply?
MR. LORD: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you have further communication with the Titanic?
MR. LORD: Not at all, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Did the Titanic have further communication with you?
MR. LORD: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know the Titanic's position on the sea when she sank?
MR. LORD: I know the position given to me by the Virginian as the position where she struck an iceberg 41-degrees 56-minutes and 50-degrees 14-minutes.
SENATOR SMITH: Figuring from the Titanic's position as the time she went down and your position at the time you sent this warning to the Titanic, how far were these vessels from one another?
MR. LORD: From the position we stopped in to the position at which the Titanic is supposed to have hit the iceberg, 19 1/2 to 19 3/4 miles; south 16 west, sir, was the course.
SENATOR SMITH: Did the Titanic operator answer at once the message sent by you?
MR. LORD: I believe he did.
SENATOR SMITH: This was at 11 o'clock and how many minutes?
MR. BURTON: 10:50, he said.
MR. LORD: About 11, approximately.
SENATOR SMITH: About 11?
MR. LORD: Yes; approximately.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know what time the Titanic sent out this C.Q.D. call?
MR. LORD: No sir; I do not.
SENATOR SMITH: Did the Californian receive that call?
MR. LORD: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Either from the Titanic or any other ship?
MR. LORD: We got it from the Virginian.
SENATOR SMITH: What time did you receive it?
MR. LORD: Six o'clock, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: A.m.?
MR. LORD: A.m., on the 15th.
SENATOR SMITH: What is the average speed of the steamship Californian under fair conditions?
MR. LORD: It would depend on the consumption of coal.
SENATOR SMITH: What speed do you attempt to make?
MR. LORD: On our present consumption we average 11 in fine weather.
SENATOR SMITH: Eleven in fine weather?
MR. LORD: On our consumption at present.
SENATOR SMITH: In case of distress, I suppose it would be possible for you to exceed that considerably?
MR. LORD: Oh, we made 13 and 13 1/2 the day we were going down to the Titanic.
SENATOR SMITH: Were you under full speed then?
MR. LORD: We were driving all we could.
SENATOR SMITH: When you notified the Titanic that you were in ice, how much ice were you in?
MR. LORD: Well, we were surrounded by a lot of loose ice, and we were about a quarter mile off the edge of the field.
SENATOR SMITH: Were there any icebergs in view?
MR. LORD: No; I could not see that; not then.
SENATOR SMITH: This ice that you were in was field ice?
MR. LORD: Field ice.
SENATOR SMITH: And how large an area, in your judgment, would it cover?
MR. LORD: Well, my judgment was from what I saw the next day; not what I saw that night.
SENATOR SMITH: Exactly; but how large an area would it cover the next morning?
MR. LORD: I suppose about 25 miles long and from 1 to 2 miles wide.
SENATOR SMITH: How badly were you interfered with by the ice on Sunday evening?
MR. LORD: How were we interfered with?
SENATOR SMITH: Yes.
MR. LORD: We stopped altogether.
SENATOR SMITH: What did you stop for?
MR. LORD: So we would not run over the top of it.
SENATOR SMITH: You stopped your ship so that you might avoid the ice?
MR. LORD: To avoid the ice.
SENATOR SMITH: And did you avoid it?
MR. LORD: I did.
SENATOR SMITH: When did you notify the Titanic of your condition? What was your purpose?
MR. LORD: It was just a matter of courtesy. I thought he would be a long way from where we were. I did not think he was anywhere near the ice. By rights, he ought to have been 18 or 19 miles to the southward of where I was. I never thought the ice was stretching that far down.
SENATOR SMITH: You gave him this information?
MR. LORD: Just as a matter of courtesy. We always pass the news around when we get hold of anything like that.
SENATOR SMITH: You knew it would not do any harm and might do them some good?
MR. LORD: Yes. I did not know where he was; I had no idea where was ­ I mean the distance he was away from me.
SENATOR SMITH: Capt. Lord, for the purpose of making it a little clearer, what did you say your position was at 10:50 p.m. Sunday, April 14?
MR. LORD: I did not say at all.
SENATOR SMITH: Will you state?
MR. LORD: It was the same position I was in when I stopped at 10:21, and that I gave you before as 42-degrees 5-minutes and 50-degrees 7-minutes.
SENATOR SMITH: You had stopped, and your position did not change?
MR. LORD: No.
SENATOR SMITH: Substantially, for how long a time?
MR. LORD: We moved the engines first at 5:15 on the 15th of April, full ahead.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know anything regarding the Titanic disaster, of your own knowledge? Did you see the ship on Sunday?
MR. LORD: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Or any signals from her?
MR. LORD: Not from the Titanic.
SENATOR SMITH: Was the Titanic beyond your range of vision?
MR. LORD: I should think so; 19 1/2 or 20 miles away.
SENATOR SMITH: How long did it take you to reach the scene of the accident, from the time you steamed up and got under way Monday morning?
MR. LORD: From the time we received the message of the Titanic's position?
SENATOR SMITH: Yes.
MR. LORD: [reading]: Six o'clock, proceeded slow, pushing through the thick ice.
