SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE, UNITED STATES SENATE,
Washington, D.C.
The subcommittee met at 10:20 o'clock a.m.
Present: Senators Smith (Chairman), Perkins, and Fletcher.
TESTIMONY OF CHARLES H. LIGHTOLLER­­Recalled.
SENATOR SMITH: Mr. Lightoller, are you familiar with the ship's crew of the Titanic when she left Southampton and at the time of the accident?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: You are speaking of the seamen, are you sir?
SENATOR SMITH: Yes.
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you ever known Luis Klein?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Not amongst the seamen.
SENATOR SMITH: Was there such a member of the crew of the Titanic?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: I am given to understand that there was one man named Klein, who was a second­class barber. That man is personally known to me. He is the only Klein who was on board so far as I know.
SENATOR SMITH: Did he survive?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: He did not.
SENATOR SMITH: Who was the barber? Do you recall him by name?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Klein.
SENATOR SMITH: No; I do not mean him. This was the assistant ­ Klein, the man you speak of. I want to know who the barber was. Who was the principal barber on that ship?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: The first­class barber?
SENATOR SMITH: Yes.
MR. LIGHTOLLER: I forget his name, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know whether he survived?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: He did not.
SENATOR SMITH: I would like to have you be very sure of that, sir?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Of which, sir?
SENATOR SMITH: Of that last statement. Will you kindly make yourself very certain of that? I am in communication with the first­class barber, who is an American, the only American, I believe, who was in the crew, and I would like to have you think over whether there was more than the one first­class barber, so that we may have no conflict about this man.
MR. LIGHTOLLER: To the best of my knowledge and belief the first­class barber was not saved unless I have been misinformed. [After consulting memorandum]. I am very sorry, sir; I see that the first­class barber is here.
SENATOR SMITH: What is his name?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Whitman or Whiteman.
SENATOR SMITH: W­h­i­t­m­a­n?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: I have just been handed by a surviving passenger a memorandum, and he says that this barber is now at Palmyra, N.J. Would you like to correct your statement in that respect?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes; I would. The first class barber evidently is the survivor.
SENATOR SMITH: But you are positive that the only Klein in the crew did not survive?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: He did not survive, to the best of my knowledge and belief.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you see a man here in my office this week who claimed to be Lewis Klein, a surviving member of the crew of the Titanic?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: I believe that I did, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Had you ever seen him before?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Never.
SENATOR FLETCHER: Could he have been the stowaway that was found in one of the lifeboats?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: I really could not say, sir. I know the man that Senator Smith speaks of as being in his office, and I certainly never saw him before.
SENATOR SMITH: You recall that the stowaway referred to as having sneaked into the boat with a shawl and a dress on had a broken arm? This man you saw in my office did not have a broken arm, did he?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Not as far as I could see, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know who made up the list of the surviving members of the crew?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: I made up the list for the seamen and Hardy, the assistant second­class steward, made up a list for the victualing department.
SENATOR SMITH: Was any list made on the Carpathia of the survivors of the crew?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: And you feel that you have an accurate list?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: I feel that I have. I went through all the seamen and firemen personally. The stewards I left to Mr. Hardy to identify.
SENATOR SMITH: Is Mr. Hardy here?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: We can get him in a few minutes. He has gone to his hotel.
SENATOR SMITH: I would like to have Mr. Hardy called, and I would like to ask you if you have filed with the committee a complete list of the surviving members of the crew, as requested?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: No, sir; not the complete list; not that I remember. I have given it to two or three. I do not know whether I gave it to the committee.
SENATOR SMITH: Will you kindly supply the committee with a complete list?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: And I would like it, if possible, during the day.
MR. MOORE: I will have it done at once.
SENATOR SMITH: I would like to have it indicate the vocation of each.
MR. MOORE: Exactly.
SENATOR SMITH: And, if possible, give the full name of each.
MR. MOORE: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: And his place of residence.
Witness excused.
TESTIMONY OF CAPT. JAMES HENRY MOORE.
The witness was sworn by the chairman.
SENATOR SMITH: Where do you reside, Captain?
MR. MOORE: Liverpool, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: What is your business?
MR. MOORE: I am master of the steamship Mount Temple, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: And your business is that of a navigator or mariner?
MR. MOORE: A navigator; yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: How long have you been engaged in that business?
MR. MOORE: I have been going to sea for 32 years, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: How much of that time in the north Atlantic Ocean?
MR. MOORE: Twenty­seven years, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Are you familiar with ice and icebergs?
MR. MOORE: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Tell the committee what you know about ice and icebergs and the prevalence of ice in the north Atlantic.
MR. MOORE: An iceberg is a piece of ice broken away from a glacier up in the Arctic regions. It may be composed of anything; ice, rocks, or anything it can gather up on its way to the sea.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know how much of an iceberg is submerged?
MR. MOORE: It is generally supposed that seven­eighths of it is submerged, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: What is the largest iceberg you have ever seen?
MR. MOORE: I could not say just at the moment, but I dare say I have seen them 300 or 400 feet long and about the same height, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you notice the National Capitol when you came up here this morning? Did you notice that building?
MR. MOORE: Yes; but it would be hard to judge from that, sir. I dare say I have seen some larger than that, but I am giving that as a conservative size.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know of any manner or method of obtaining information regarding the proximity of vessels at sea to icebergs other than by actual vision?
MR. MOORE: We usually take the temperatures of both the air and the water, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: What does that indicate?
MR. MOORE: If we are approaching an ice field, the chances are that the temperature will go down; but when approaching an iceberg it does not make any difference whatever, sir, except you get very, very close to it.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you ever heard of the practice of sounding the steam whistle in order to get an indication as to whether or not icebergs are ahead?
MR. MOORE: I do not think that is generally done. I have never tried it, but I have I tried it when I have been near high cliffs.
SENATOR SMITH: What was the result?
MR. MOORE: You do sometimes get an echo back, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: What does that indicate?
MR. MOORE: That you are close to something that is obstructing the waves of sound.
SENATOR SMITH: What is the purpose of taking the water, and testing it, on a voyage?
MR. MOORE: We take it right along, sir. We have logs we make up for the Hydrographic Office in Washington, sir; and we also have them for the British Geographical Society, sir ­ the British Meteorological Society, rather ­ and we supply them with all those data. We give them the barometer and the thermometer, the temperature of the water, and all such things as that, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: I believe you said the temperature of both the water and the air might indicate the presence of field ice?
MR. MOORE: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: But not necessarily the presence of a floating iceberg?
MR. MOORE: No, sir; because a large field of ice, I think, would make some difference in the temperature, but just a solitary berg, without you are close to it, I do not think makes any difference at all. In fact, I tried it several times, and I did not find any difference. I do not think it indicates the presence of an iceberg, but it will indicate the presence of a large body of ice, such as an ice field.
SENATOR SMITH: From your experience and observation have you ever heard explosions from icebergs?
MR. MOORE: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you seen icebergs both by day and by night?
MR. MOORE: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: What is their color by day?
MR. MOORE: White, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: What is their color by night?
MR. MOORE: It just depends on which way you have the lights, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Suppose you have merely the sky light?
MR. MOORE: Then they will show up white, sir ­ white and luminous.
SENATOR SMITH: Suppose you have moonlight?
MR. MOORE: It just depends on which way you have the moon, whether at the back of the iceberg or not, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Do they at any time look black?
MR. MOORE: :Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Under what circumstances?
MR. MOORE: When you have the light behind them from you, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: That is at night?
MR. MOORE: At night, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Where is your vessel now?
MR. MOORE: She is on her way to Halifax, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Where were you and your vessel on Sunday, April 14 last?
MR. MOORE: At 12:30 on Monday morning­­
SENATOR SMITH: [interposing]. Give the date.
MR. MOORE: The 15th, sir. I was in latitude 41-degrees 25-minutes and longitude 51-degrees 15-minutes, sir. I believe that is correct.
SENATOR SMITH: What time of day was that?
MR. MOORE: At 12:30 a.m.
SENATOR SMITH: Was it New York time or ship's time?
MR. MOORE: That was ship's time, sir. [After consulting a memorandum] 41-degrees 25-minutes north and 51-degrees 41-minutes west was my position.
SENATOR SMITH: What hour was this in the morning?
MR. MOORE: 12:30 a.m.
SENATOR NEWLANDS: Ship's time?
MR. MOORE: Ship's time.
SENATOR FLETCHER: What date was that?
MR. MOORE: The 15th.
SENATOR FLETCHER: Kindly give the longitude at that time.
MR. MOORE: 51-degrees 41-minutes west.
SENATOR SMITH: When was your ship's clock set?
MR. MOORE: At noon the day before, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: That would be Sunday?
MR. MOORE: Yes, sir; or, rather, before noon. It was during what they call the forenoon watch, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: I would like to have you tell in your own way what, if anything especially, occurred on that voyage of yours on Sunday and Monday. Just tell what you did, what you saw, and where you saw it.
MR. MOORE: At 12:30 a.m. on the 15th I was awakened by the steward from my sleep with a message from the Marconi operator, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: On your ship?
MR. MOORE: On my ship; yes, sir. I immediately switched on the light and took a message that the operator sent up to me which said that the Titanic was sending out the C.Q.D. message, and in the message it said "iceberg."
SENATOR SMITH: Have you the message?
MR. MOORE: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Just read it, please.
MR. MOORE: Titanic sends­­
SENATOR SMITH: [interposing]. Kindly give the date line, if any; the hour, if any; and to whom that message is addressed, if to anyone.
MR. MOORE: It was a general message sir.
Titanic sends C.Q.D. Requires assistance. Position 41-degrees 44-minutes north, longitude 50-degrees 24-minutes west. Come at once. Iceberg.
SENATOR SMITH: Who signed that, if anybody?
MR. MOORE: This is just a message he picked up, sir. He happened to hear it. He was sending this up at once to me.
SENATOR SMITH: Can you file that with the reporter?
MR. MOORE: Yes, sir.
The message referred to was thereupon filed with the committee and marked "Exhibit Moore, No. 1."
SENATOR SMITH: Did you make any reply to that message?
MR. MOORE: None whatever. We did not want to stop these messages from going out, sir. He makes a remark at the bottom, "Can't hear me."
SENATOR SMITH: On this message?
MR. MOORE: Yes, sir. You will see it on the bottom, there ­ "Can't hear me."
SENATOR SMITH: What is the initial under that?
MR. MOORE: That is my operator's, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: What did you do after receiving this message?
MR. MOORE: I immediately blew the whistle on the bridge. I have a pipe leading down from the bridge, and I blew the whistle at once, and told the second officer to put the ship on north 45-degrees east, sir, and to come down at once, and I informed him what was the matter, and told him to get the chart out. When I was sufficiently dressed I went up to my chart room, and we computed where the ship was, and we afterwards steered east by compass.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you make any progress in your movements?
MR. MOORE: We turned her right around at once, sir, and then when he came down we took the chart out and out where the Titanic was and steered her by the compass north 65-degrees east true.
SENATOR SMITH: In the direction of the Titanic?
MR. MOORE: In the direction of the Titanic; yes, sir. After I was sufficiently dressed I went down to the chief engineer and I told him that the Titanic was sending out messages for help, and I said "Go down and try to shake up the fireman, and, if necessary, even give him a tot of rum if you think he can do any more." I believe this was carried out. I also told him to inform the fireman that we wanted to get back as fast as we possibly could.
SENATOR SMITH: At the time that you go this message from the Titanic, judging from the position that vessel was in and your position, 41-degrees 44-minutes north, longitude 50-degrees 24-minutes west, how far did you estimate the Titanic was at that time from your vessel?
MR. MOORE: Before we had laid the course off I received another position, which read 41-degrees 46-minutes north, 50-degrees 14-minutes west; so that was 10 miles farther to the eastward, and it was that position that I laid my course for.
SENATOR SMITH: After satisfying yourself as to her position, how far was the Titanic from your vessel?
MR. MOORE: About 49 miles, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: After you got well under way, what speed were you making?
MR. MOORE: I should imagine perhaps 11 1/2 knots. Of course, perhaps she would have a little of the Gulf Stream with her too, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: What occurred then?
MR. MOORE: At about 3 o'clock we began to meet the ice, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Where? From which direction?
MR. MOORE: We were passing it on our course. We met ice on our course. I immediately telegraphed to the engine room to stand by the engines, and we double­lookout, and put the fourth officer forward to report if he saw any ice coming along that was likely to injure us, or, in fact, any ice at all.
