SENATOR SMITH: Suppose you had been warned in the afternoon of Sunday that ice was ahead; would you have considered it prudent or wise, under such circumstances to have continued your speed as fast as 12 1/2 knots per hour?
MR. MOORE: I think it was very unwise, sir. My orders were to come down to the same position that the Olympic was in. At least, I was to come down to 42-degrees north 47-degrees west, and then to steer for Cape Sable. Before that, I received a message from the Corinthian saying that one of their vessels, the Corsican, had seen ice at 41-degrees 25-minutes west in 41-degrees 15-minutes north, sir ­ that is, I was giving the ice 10 miles ­ and I came down and saw no ice whatever.
SENATOR SMITH: You received the same warning as the Titanic, did you not?
MR. MOORE: I do not know whether the same warning, but I received this from the Corinthian, one of the Allan boats. Whether it was the same message or not, I do not know.
SENATOR SMITH: The Titanic could have received that same message?
MR. MOORE: Oh, yes. It is quite possible that she received it, because she was bound to meet the Corinthian, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: And had received substantially that same message from the Californian?
MR. MOORE: Well, directly I received that message I steered farther to the south, and I did not see any ice whatever, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Where were you headed for?
MR. MOORE: For 42-degrees, 47-degrees, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: That is when you turned around you headed­­
MR. MOORE: No; I was coming down to come to 41-degrees 15-minutes, sir. Before that I was head for 42-degrees, 47-degrees, sir. That was the position given to me by my company.
SENATOR SMITH: But when you went south, was it on your trip toward the Titanic?
MR. MOORE: No, no; outward.
SENATOR SMITH: Or on your route?
MR. MOORE: On my route­­
SENATOR SMITH: And where were you headed for ­ what port?
MR. MOORE: I was bound to St. Johns, New Brunswick.
SENATOR SMITH: Can you think of anything that will throw any light on this sad affair that you have not already spoken of?
MR. MOORE: As to the way the ship struck the berg or anything of that kind?
SENATOR SMITH: Yes; any information that would help us.
MR. MOORE: My theory would be that she was going along and touched one of those large spurs from an iceberg. There are spurs projecting out beneath the water, and they are very sharp and pointed. They are like a jagged rock. My idea is that she struck one of those on her bilge, and that she ran along that, and that opened up her plates, the lining of her plates, and the water came in; and so much water got in that I think her bulkheads could not stand the strain, and she must have torn herself at a speed like that, because her speed through the water was not stopped very much immediately, and, of course, that was a tremendous body, and she must have struck along on her bilge and opened herself out right along as far as the engine room, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you studied the plan of the Titanic at all?
MR. MOORE: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: This opinion you arriving is the result of your own diagnosis?
MR. MOORE: Yes, sir; that is what I should say, sir. Of course, I have been fortunate myself. I have never yet had any injury from ice, although I have been master in this trade for a very long time.
SENATOR SMITH: And in the ice region?
MR. MOORE: In the ice regions; yes sir; because we go through the Strait of Belle Isle in the summer time, and I have been 48 hours in the ice and have passed through 200 miles of ice, Arctic ice, just fresh down from the coast of Labrador, and I have managed to get through without any accident.
SENATOR SMITH: How far south have you ever seen ice?
MR. MOORE: I have not been much in the southern trade, sir. Our routes are nearly always down as far south as 42-degrees north, but nothing farther.
SENATOR SMITH: What becomes of this Arctic ice; does it go down into the south Atlantic?
MR. MOORE: I think in a great many cases that it is thrown back on the land, and a great many of these icebergs are thrown into these deep bays on Newfoundland, and no doubt a great many of them meet their death in there, because if there is any sea they will smash up and break each other up on the rocks.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you know the captain of the Titanic?
MR. MOORE: No; I did not.
SENATOR SMITH: You do no think of anything bearing on this inquiry that you would care to say, further than what you have said?
MR. MOORE: No, sir; that is the only thing ­ and about the bodies coming up, sir; of course I never thought of it before. It may be that, as you say, the ice has covered the spot where the Titanic sank, and that has kept those bodies under. I think that is a very feasible suggestion that you have made as to that.
SENATOR SMITH: I am very much obliged for the compliment, because I am not generally regarded as a mariner, or an authority on sea conditions.
MR. MOORE: I think you are perfectly right, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Is there anything further that you can think of?
MR. MOORE: There is nothing further, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: I am very much obliged to you for your kindness in responding to our request to come here.
MR. MOORE: I was only too glad to come, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: I do not want any wrong impression to get out concerning the course of the Mount Temple after receiving this warning.
MR. MOORE: I assure you that I did everything that was possible, sir, consistent with the safety of my own ship and passengers.
SENATOR SMITH: While it may not be any consolation to you, or anybody else, I want to compliment you upon your care and solicitude for the passengers and property; that have come under your care.
MR. MOORE: I think you, sir.
Thereupon, at 12:35 p.m., the subcommittee took a recess until 2 o'clock p.m.
AFTERNOON SESSION.
The subcommittee reconvened at 2:35 o'clock p.m., Hon. William Alden Smith (chairman) presiding.
ADDITIONAL TESTIMONY OF MR. C. H. LIGHTOLLER.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you hear the testimony of Capt. Moore, commander of the Mount Temple, this morning?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: As I understand from your testimony in New York, you said there was no suction in the sea at the time and place where the Titanic disappeared, so far as you were able to observe?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Exactly. The suction was hardly noticeable.
SENATOR SMITH: When you said that you twice found yourself against the grating at the blower, when in the water, did you mean that you gravitated back toward the blowpipe, or were you pushed back to it by suction of any kind?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: It was the water rushing down the stokeholes through this blower, which acts as a ventilator, and therefore gives access to the stokehole, the force of the water rushing down this blower which naturally carried me back with it, and against the blower.
SENATOR SMITH: When you last saw the Titanic did you see numerous people on the decks?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Do you mean before I left it?
SENATOR SMITH: Before you left the side of the Titanic, and while you were in the water?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: I saw no one while I was in the water.
SENATOR SMITH: You could not see the decks very well from that point. You were below the decks, and could not see the upper part of the ship?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: No, sir; I could not see anything when I was in the water, at all. I mean to say, I could not see anyone on her decks.
SENATOR SMITH: How far did you swim from the blowpipe to this overturned collapsible lifeboat upon which you finally escaped from the wreck?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: I hardly had any opportunity to swim. I was blown away from this blower by a rush of air, or it may have been steam. What it was, exactly, I can not say; but I was blown a considerable distance away from this blower.
SENATOR SMITH: And from that?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: From there I was sucked in again to what we call the "fiddley," which leads down to the stokehole, I may say. I presume I was blown away from there. I really can not say exactly. Then I came up alongside of this overturned boat.
SENATOR SMITH: How long was that before the Titanic disappeared?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: It might be 10 or 15 minutes.
SENATOR SMITH: And after getting aboard of this overturned lifeboat you went out some distance from it?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: It was the action of the funnel falling that threw us out a considerable distance away from the boat.
SENATOR SMITH: You had no oars or other means of propelling that boat?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Nothing of that effect. We had little bits of wood; but they were practically ineffective.
SENATOR SMITH: I have forgotten whether you said that at daybreak you cruised around the place of the wreck?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: At daybreak we were taken on board by one of our other lifeboats.
SENATOR SMITH: No. 14?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: The number I can not remember.
SENATOR SMITH: Was that Mr. Lowe's boat?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: There was not any officer in the boat until I got in.
SENATOR SMITH: And then?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Of course, I took charge.
SENATOR SMITH: And did you cruise around the scene of the wreck?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: You then bore toward the Carpathia?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: No, sir; we held our bow on to the wind. The boat was too full; in fact, she was dangerously full, and it was all I could do to nurse the boat up to the sea.
SENATOR SMITH: I understood you to say that. What I particularly desired to know was whether at that time you saw any of the wreckage or floating bodies, dead or alive?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: I saw none.
SENATOR SMITH: What time did the captain come to the bridge on Sunday night while you were officer of the watch?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: I think I said about 5 minutes to 9, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: And he remained until you left the watch at 10 o'clock?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: No, sir; I think it was 20 minutes past 9 I said he left us. It was about that. About 25 minutes he was with us.
SENATOR SMITH: I have not as yet received any information from any of the surviving officers of the Titanic as to the composition of an iceberg. I asked one officer of the Titanic, and he generously advised me that it was ice. I would like to ask you what, in your opinion, composes an iceberg in the North Atlantic?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: As far as I understand, icebergs greatly consist of pieces broken away from glaciers. These naturally contain a certain quantity of earth and stones that they have brought down the valleys with them.
SENATOR SMITH: Is it not a well accepted theory among navigators that the coast of Newfoundland or the Grand Banks, have been largely made from the deposits of icebergs?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: Well, it is a saying among sailors ­ I can not say that we have an authority for saying so ­ that the icebergs have to a certain extent, assisted in the formation of the Grand Banks, centuries gone by, owing to them bring down earth and these stones, and meeting the warm current and depositing them.
SENATOR SMITH: I will recall Mr. Franklin for a moment.
FURTHER TESTIMONY OF MR. P.A.S. FRANKLIN.
SENATOR SMITH: Mr. Franklin, I was somewhat persistent in my inquiries from you yesterday as to the time when you received the first information regarding the collision between the Titanic, of your line, and the iceberg.
MR. FRANKLIN: Quite right, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: You have been kind enough to file with me telegrams, wireless, cable, and otherwise, between your offices in England and the offices of your ships, and their communications with you. As we figured out yesterday, your first authentic information came in answer to a telephone message from you to your office in Montreal about 2:30 Monday morning?
MR. FRANKLIN: Of course, as I have said before, Senator Smith, we considered that our first really authentic information came from Capt. Haddock. Our telephone message to Montreal was to ask if Montreal could confirm this rumor. Our Montreal representative replied about an hour later saying that he had confirmation of the rumor in Montreal.
SENATOR SMITH: That comes back to my question. He had his information from the Virginian?
MR. FRANKLIN: The information in Montreal was reported to have come from the steamship Virginian.
SENATOR SMITH: And your first authentic information, or official information, was received from the Montreal office about 2:30 Monday morning.
MR. FRANKLIN: If you consider that the official information. My statement has always been, and my feeling has always been, that our first authentic information was the information which we received from Capt. Haddock. My recollection is that the reply of our Montreal representative was to the effect that that rumor was also in Montreal.
SENATOR SMITH: I read yesterday a quotation from a Montreal paper, published Monday morning following the catastrophe, giving substantially the same information that you had from Montreal.
MR. FRANKLIN: Quite right, sir; the same information we had from the newspapers and the Associated Press prior to calling up Montreal. Also, when we got to the office we found that there again.
SENATOR SMITH: Which was confirmed by the Montreal communication?
MR. FRANKLIN: The Montreal office advised that they had similar information there.
SENATOR SMITH: Your information from Capt. Haddock, of the Olympic, was received between 5 and 6 o'clock on Monday morning?
MR. FRANKLIN: I have given that telegram.
SENATOR SMITH: I have it accurately; I do not care to have you guess at it. Have you the message?
MR. FRANKLIN: My recollection is the first message we got from Capt. Haddock was about 9 o'clock or between 9 and 10.
SENATOR SMITH: Was not that because it was not delivered?
MR. FRANKLIN: No, sir; I do not think so, because prior to that time we sent word to all telegraph offices. I would like to fix the message ­ that is, the message from Capt. Haddock that said he was 310 miles­­
SENATOR SMITH: From the Titanic?
MR. FRANKLIN: Yes; from the Titanic.
SENATOR SMITH: As far as you can find out the information you received through your Montreal office at half past 2 Monday morning was accurate?
MR. FRANKLIN: It was marvelously correct as it turned out. But remember, we had that information from the Associated Press before that.
SENATOR SMITH: You had rumors, as you described?
MR. FRANKLIN: The same thing as Montreal.
SENATOR SMITH: Not exactly, because that came through your office, and the Virginian is owned in Montreal?
MR. FRANKLIN: Owned by the Allens, living in Montreal, or some of them living in Montreal.
SENATOR SMITH: So, really, that was more authentic than the rumors you speak of?
MR. FRANKLIN: It seemed so to us, as it was nearer the source of information than anything else. That is the way I put it.
SENATOR SMITH: That is the reason you went to that source?
