MR. ISMAY: I should think that he was a man of about 48 or 50. He was sent over to Belfast when the Olympic was being built, and he remained in Belfast during the whole of the time she was being built, superintending her construction, making any suggestions which he thought would lead to improvements. He brought the ship out to New York on her first voyage as chief engineer on board the ship. We put one of our other senior engineers on board the Olympic with Mr. Bell, a man called Mr. Fleming, so that he could have the experience of the Olympic and get accustomed to her, and then he took charge of her. I think they ran together for about two voyages, and we then brought Mr. Bell again ashore, and he was present during the whole time of the construction of the Titanic and brought her out as chief engineer.
SENATOR SMITH: How does it happen that the Titanic had but 20 lifeboats, including lifeboats, emergency boats, and collapsibles?
MR. ISMAY: That was a matter for the builders, sir, and I presume that they were fulfilling all the requirements of the board of trade.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know whether they were?
MR. ISMAY: I do not know of my own knowledge, but I am convinced that they must have done so, because otherwise the ship never could have left port. We never could have gotten clearance.
SENATOR SMITH: How is the apportionment of lifeboats made, do you know?
MR. ISMAY: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Is it made on tonnage?
MR. ISMAY: It is based on tonnage.
SENATOR SMITH: On tonnage entirely?
MR. ISMAY: On tonnage entirely, I believe.
SENATOR SMITH: That would not include passenger capacity?
MR. ISMAY: No, sir; it is on the tonnage of the ship. I think the boatage is determined by the register of the ship ­ the tonnage register of the ship.
SENATOR SMITH: Let me ask you, Mr. Ismay, whether in view of this experience you have just gone through you would not consider it desirable to have the apportionment of lifeboats based upon passenger capacity rather than tonnage?
MR. ISMAY: I think the result of this horrible accident is that the whole question of life­saving appliances on board vessels and ships will be very carefully gone through and receive the most full and careful consideration to see what is the best thing to be done.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you yourself taken any steps in that direction since the accident?
MR. ISMAY: No, I have not. My mind has been so fully occupied with other questions that I have not; but it is a matter that will be taken up as soon as I get home with our shipbuilding friends and our experts.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know of any changes contemplated by the British Board of Trade prior to the Titanic accident in the number of lifeboats to be carried by passenger steamers?
MR. ISMAY: I do not, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Are you familiar with a paper read at the spring meeting of the fifty­third session of the Institution of Naval Architects, March 19, 1912, entitled, "The Arrangement of Boat Installations on Modern Ships," by Axel Welin.
MR. ISMAY: No, sir. I know Mr. Welin.
SENATOR SMITH: You do know Mr. Welin?
MR. ISMAY: He is the davit man, the man who has these patent davits, is he not?
SENATOR SMITH: I think he is the same man.
MR. ISMAY: I think they are called the Welin davits.
SENATOR SMITH: Yes. Do you know him?
MR. ISMAY: I met him once, I think.
SENATOR SMITH: I desire to read into the record a very short quotation from that article.
On the boat deck of the White Star Liner Olympic and also of the Titanic this double­acting type of davit has been fitted throughout in view of coming changes in official regulations. It was considered wise by the owners that these changes should be thus anticipated and so make it possible to double, or even treble, the number of boats without any structural alterations should such increase ultimately prove to be necessary.
Will you kindly explain, if you can, what the White Star Line had in contemplation in so arranging the davits?
MR. ISMAY: Nothing that I know of, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Had the Titanic carried double the number of lifeboats or treble the number of lifeboats, do you consider that there might have been an increase in the number of passengers and crew saved?
MR. ISMAY: I think that is quite probable, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: I do not want to commit you to any special course in your company, and presume I will not do so, by this inquiry; but in view of all that has occurred, are you willing to say that the proportion of lifeboats should be increased to more approximately meet such exigencies as you have just passed through?
MR. ISMAY: I think, having regard to our experience, there is no question that that should be done; but I think it may be quite possible to improve on the construction of the ship.
SENATOR SMITH: Also?
MR. ISMAY: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you given any instructions to increase the lifeboat capacity of other White Star ships?
MR. ISMAY: We have given instructions that no ship belonging to the I.M.M. Co. is to leave port unless she has sufficient boats on board for the accommodation of all the passengers and the whole of the crew.
SENATOR SMITH: Who gave those instructions?
MR. ISMAY: I did, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: When?
MR. ISMAY: The day after I landed from the Carpathia?
SENATOR SMITH: Have you any knowledge as to whether that has been done?
MR. ISMAY: I know, sir, that no ship of that company will sail from any port unless she has sufficient boats to carry the number of passengers she has on board. It may be necessary, and probably will be necessary, reduce the number of passengers in the cabins.
SENATOR SMITH: But by that course you exceed the requirements of the regulations of the British Board of Trade?
MR. ISMAY: Absolutely. Our ships all now conform to the board of trade regulations, without putting the additional boats in.
SENATOR SMITH: I understand that. But you evidently do not regard the regulation of the British Board of Trade as sufficient to protect the lives of your passengers?
MR. ISMAY: Not after our unfortunate experience, sir; that is so.
SENATOR SMITH: When were those regulations made?
MR. ISMAY: I could not tell you. I could not answer that.
SENATOR SMITH: Are they old regulations?
MR. ISMAY: I could not say.
SENATOR SMITH: You speak of improvements in the construction of your ships. Have you any ideas or suggestions as to improvements in the construction of your ships which you would care to impart to the committee?
MR. ISMAY: As I have told you, I have not technical knowledge about shipbuilding, and this is a matter which we would take up with our shipbuilding friends, and also with our own marine superintendents. I do not know whether it would be feasible to carry the bulkheads up any higher; I do not know whether it would be feasible to build a ship with a double hull, anyway, up to just above water line, to carry her double bottom higher up the side of the ship. Of course, you understand that now, with the double bottom, if the ship runs on rocks and pierces the outside bottom, she will float on the inside bottom.
SENATOR SMITH: Can you make any suggestions as to improvements in water­tight compartments that would make more certain the ship floating?
MR. ISMAY: You mean to say strengthening the bulkheads?
SENATOR SMITH: Yes.
MR. ISMAY: I could not do that, sir; because that end of it is a question of figures, is it not?
SENATOR SMITH: I think in my prior examination in New York you said you entered the lifeboat from A deck?
MR. ISMAY: From the boat deck, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: And that at the time there were no other persons around; no women, particularly?
MR. ISMAY: Absolutely none that I saw, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Ws that the last lifeboat or the last collapsible boat to leave?
MR. ISMAY: It was the last collapsible boat that left the starboard side of the ship.
SENATOR SMITH: Was it filled to its capacity?
MR. ISMAY: No; it was not.
SENATOR SMITH: Why?
MR. ISMAY: I understand the full capacity of one of those boats is about 60 to 65.
SENATOR SMITH: Of the collapsible?
MR. ISMAY: I do not know whether the capacity of the collapsible is the same as that of the wooden boat.
SENATOR SMITH: It was not filled to its capacity?
MR. ISMAY: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know how many people were in it?
MR. ISMAY: I should think there were about 40 women in it, and some children. There was a child in arms. I think they were all third­class passengers, so far as I could see.
SENATOR SMITH: And this boat was from the starboard side of the boat deck, or top deck, near the bridge?
MR. ISMAY: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: At the time you entered it, did you say anything to the captain about entering it?
MR. ISMAY: No, sir; I did not. I never saw the captain.
SENATOR SMITH: Did he say anything to you about your entering it?
MR. ISMAY: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Who, if any one, told you to enter the lifeboat?
MR. ISMAY: No one, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Why did you enter it?
MR. ISMAY: Because there was room in the boat. She was being lowered away. I felt the ship was going down, and I got into the boat.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you yourself see any icebergs at daybreak the following morning?
MR. ISMAY: I should think I saw four or five icebergs when day broke on Monday morning.
SENATOR SMITH: How near the scene of the Titanic disaster?
MR. ISMAY: I could not tell where she went down. We were some distance away from it.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you see the steamship Californian that morning?
MR. ISMAY: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Not desiring to be impertinent at all, but in order that I may not be charted with omitting to do my duty, I would like to know where you went after you boarded the Carpathia, and how you happened to go there?
MR. ISMAY: Mr. Chairman, I understand that my behavior on the Titanic and subsequently on board the Carpathia, has been very severely criticized. I want to court the fullest inquiry, and I place myself unreservedly in the hands of yourself and of any of your colleagues, to ask me any questions in regard to my conduct; so please do not hesitate to do so, and I will answer them to the best of my ability. So far as the Carpathia is concerned, sir, when I got on board the ship I stood up with my back against the bulkhead, and somebody came up to me and said, "Will you not go into the saloon and get some soup, or something to drink?" "No," I said. "I really do not want anything at all." He said, "Do go and get something." I said, "No. If you will leave me alone I will be very much happier here." I said, "If you will get me in some room where I can be quiet, I wish you would." He said, "Please go in the saloon and get something hot." I said, "I would rather not." Then he took me and put me into a room. I did not know whose the room was, at all. This man proved to be the doctor of the Carpathia. I was in that room until I left the ship. I was never outside the door of that room. During the whole of the time I was in this room, I never had anything of a solid nature at all; I lived on soup. I did not want very much of anything. The room was constantly being entered by people asking for the doctor. The doctor did not sleep in the room the first night. The doctor slept in the room the other nights that I was on board the ship. Mr. Jack Thayer was brought into the room the morning we got on board the Carpathia. He stayed in the room for some little time, and the doctor came in after he had been in, I should think, about a quarter of an hour, and he said to this young boy, "Would you not like something to eat?" He said, "I would like some bacon and eggs;" which he had. The doctor did not have a suite of rooms on the ship. He simply had this one small room, which he himself occupied and dressed in every night and morning.
SENATOR SMITH: Did he keep his medicines and bandages there?
MR. ISMAY: No, sir; he kept them in the dispensary; in the surgery.
SENATOR SMITH: Right near this room?
MR. ISMAY: I have no idea where it was. As I tell you, I was never outside of that room from the time I entered it.
SENATOR SMITH: In view of your statement, I desire to say that I have seen none of these comments to which you refer. In fact, I have not read the newspapers since I started for New York; I have deliberately avoided it; so that I have seen none of these reports, and you do not understand that I have made any criticism upon your conduct aboard the Carpathia?
MR. ISMAY: No, sir. On the contrary, I do not say that anybody has. But I am here to answer any questions in regard thereto.
SENATOR SMITH: What can you say, Mr. Ismay, as to your treatment at the hands of the committee since you have been under our direction?
MR. ISMAY: I have no fault to find. Naturally, I was disappointed in not being allowed to go home; but I feel quite satisfied you have some very good reason in your own mind for keeping me here.
SENATOR SMITH: You quite agree now that it was the wisest thing to do?
MR. ISMAY: I think, under the circumstances, it was.
SENATOR SMITH: And even in my refusal to permit you to go you saw no discourtesy?
MR. ISMAY: Certainly not, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know of any unfair or discourteous or inconsiderate treatment upon the part of the committee of any of your officers connected with this investigation?
MR. ISMAY: No; I do not.
SENATOR SMITH: In order that I may make the record absolutely clear, have you any objection to me putting into the record your letter to me and my reply to you regarding your departure?
MR. ISMAY: Not the slightest.
The letters referred to are here printed in full in the record, as follows:
Washington, D.C., April 25, 1912.
Hon. William Alden Smith, Chairman, etc., Washington, D.C.
Sir: on learning of the appointment of the committee of inquiry after the arrival of the steamship Carpathia last Thursday night in New York, the members of the committee who met me at the steamer will doubtless recall that personally, and as managing director of the White Star Line, I welcomed this inquiry and though under severe mental and physical strain as a result of the disaster placed myself voluntary at the disposal of your committee, and expressed the utmost willingness to give them all information in my possession to the best of my ability.
I voluntarily appeared before the committee the following day, Friday, April 19, and, though not in the best of condition to give evidence, I testified at length regarding all matters connected with the accident and offered to produce or have produced before the committee any officers or persons from our technical department, or from the technical department of Harland & Wolff, the builders, that might be thought necessary or desirable in order to enable the committee to investigate this tragic occurrence in the most complete manner.
