MR. ISMAY: No, sir. The only conversation I had with the captain of the Carpathia was that he came to me and told me he had a Marconi message from Capt. Haddock to say that he was coming to him. At that time the Carpathia was bound for New York. The captain of the Carpathia came to the conclusion there was no use in the Olympic coming to the Carpathia, because he could render absolutely no assistance, and he said he thought it was very undesirable that the unfortunate passengers of the Titanic should see her sister ship so soon afterwards. That is the only conversation I had with the captain except that he asked me to send a message to our office in New York to have the tug boats and some White Star sailors at quarantine to relieve him of those boats about his deck.
SENATOR BURTON: But you yourself did not attempt to put any embargo upon news of any kind while you were on board the Carpathia?
MR. ISMAY: Absolutely none, sir; and I asked for no preferential treatment for any messages that I sent. I do not know that any was given.
SENATOR SMITH: You spoke of 820 tons as being the amount of coal required to get the maximum speed of the ship. Is that 820 tons per 24 hours?
MR. ISMAY: It would be 820 tons on the day. It would all depend on whether you were going east or west. If you are going west, your day is 24 hours, and if you are going east your day is 23 hours ­ 23 hours and some minutes.
SENATOR SMITH: It would include a day?
MR. ISMAY: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: That is the day's consumption, the maximum?
MR. ISMAY: Yes, sir; I think it is a day.
SENATOR SMITH: From noon to noon?
MR. ISMAY: Yes, sir; from noon to noon. I will be very glad to give you a copy of the Olympic's engine­room log if you would like to see it and to have it.
SENATOR SMITH: Have we got it?
MR. ISMAY: I hope not.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you got it?
MR. ISMAY: Not here, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: I would like very much to have it as part of our record.
MR. ISMAY: This is information we would not want to have sent out broadcast. We have competitors in the trade, and any information we would give to you we would like to have treated with consideration.
SENATOR SMITH: This, however, will become public, if you give it to us.
MR. ISMAY: If you ask me for it, I must give it to you.
SENATOR SMITH: I do not want to ask for anything­­
MR. ISMAY: [interrupting]. I think those gentlemen behind you will know what it is.
SENATOR SMITH: I do not want to ask for anything that is private property, but if you deem it proper that we should have it and that kind of information can be made public, in view of what will probably be said before the committee regarding the speed of this ship, I think perhaps it might become important.
MR. ISMAY: I do not know that there is anything in it. If you want a copy of the log, we will give it to you and you can put it in your record.
SENATOR SMITH: I neglected to ask you whether you were on board the Titanic with a view of improving the ship in her technical details or with a view of improving her passenger conveniences?
MR. ISMAY: It would be more the passenger conveniences. My practice has always been during a voyage, to make notes in regard to anything that occurred to me on the voyage, and when I got back to Liverpool to take the matter up with our associates and with our marine superintendents and with our superintendent of engineers, and discuss the whole matter with them.
SENATOR SMITH: The reason I asked that question is because I asked you in New York if you were officially aboard the Titanic, and you said no.
MR. ISMAY: No; I was not officially aboard.
SENATOR SMITH: You said that you made the journey as a matter of personal convenience to yourself?
MR. ISMAY: Simply with the idea of looking around and seeing if there was anything which suggested itself to my mind which would be an improvement in any future ship we built.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know whether the Cunard Line had a mail contract with the British Government?
MR. ISMAY: I do not quite know what their arrangement is. Of course great changes were made between the British Government and the Cunard Co. at the time of the formation of the International Mercantile Marine Co.
SENATOR SMITH: I think that is all.
SENATOR FLETCHER: What became of the lifeboats of the Titanic?
MR. ISMAY: I think they are in New York, sir. They were put out at the end of one of the White Star docks and are probably there now, so far as I know.
SENATOR FLETCHER: Were all of them saved except the one that sank.
MR. ISMAY: There are 13 of them there now.
SENATOR FLETCHER: The captain of the Carpathia let some of them go adrift?
MR. ISMAY: I think he did. I think his decks were pretty well lumbered up when he got them all on board, because he had no idea of the trouble he was going to have.
SENATOR NEWLANDS: How many compartments were there in this ship, the Titanic?
MR. ISMAY: I think about 16. I am not sure.
SENATOR NEWLANDS: You say the ship was so designed that if two of those compartments were filled with water the ship would float?
MR. ISMAY: Two of the largest.
SENATOR NEWLANDS: Where were the largest?
MR. ISMAY: Amidships, I think.
SENATOR NEWLANDS: Was it your idea that either of these compartments was affected by this accident?
MR. ISMAY: I do not think that anybody can state exactly what did happen to her. My own impression is that the bilge of the ship was ripped out.
SENATOR NEWLANDS: Does that include these two large compartments?
MR. ISMAY: Yes; I think it ripped the ship, right along the side.
SENATOR NEWLANDS: You referred to pumps. Those pumps were to be used, in case any of these compartments had water in them, for clearing any of those compartments?
MR. ISMAY: For clearing them of water; yes.
SENATOR NEWLANDS: For clearing of water in case there was a leakage?
MR. ISMAY: Yes; or in case of accident.
SENATOR NEWLANDS: Or in case of accident?
MR. ISMAY: Yes.
SENATOR NEWLANDS: You say that one of the officers said he thought you could keep the ship afloat by the use of the pumps? The idea was that these pumps would keep these compartments, or some of them, relieved of water?
MR. ISMAY: That they would keep the water in check.
SENATOR NEWLANDS: That they would keep the water in check. The pumps were used, were they not?
MR. ISMAY: So far as I know. They were put on at once, I think.
SENATOR NEWLANDS: Did any of the officers tell you that they were being used?
MR. ISMAY: No; but Mr. Bell told me they hoped they could keep the water in check with the pumps.
SENATOR NEWLANDS: That is all.
SENATOR SMITH: Senator Bourne was anxious to interrogate you, Mr. Ismay, but he has not been able to be present this morning. If possible, I wish you would attend the afternoon session, and we will now take an early adjournment, so that Senator Bourne may then have the privilege of questioning you.
MR. ISMAY: I am entirely at your disposal, sir.
SENATOR SMITH : I desire to make a statement to go upon the record. In my examination of Officer Lowe the other day I asked him with reference to his habits. He informed that he was a teetotaler. I accepted his statement as final, and congratulated him at the same time. There is not the slightest disposition on the part of the committee to cast any reflection upon Mr. Lowe's habits. I think the difficulty arose over the statement of one of the witnesses, who said that he was very intemperate, referring to his disposition rather than to his habits, and I am very glad to make that correction.
MR. LOWE: Thank you.
SENATOR SMITH: I think, under the circumstances, we will now take a recess until 2 o'clock.
At 12:55 o'clock p.m. the committee took a recess until 2 o'clock p.m.
Afternoon Session
The committee met, pursuant to the taking of recess, at 2:10 o'clock p.m., Senator William Alden Smith (chairman), presiding.
SENATOR SMITH: I will now ask Mr. Stengel to take the stand.
TESTIMONY OF MR. C. E. STENGEL.
SENATOR SMITH: What is your full name?
MR. STENGEL: C. E. Henry Stengel.
SENATOR SMITH: Where do you reside?
MR. STENGEL: Newark, N.J.
SENATOR SMITH: What is your business?
MR. STENGEL: Leather manufacturer.
SENATOR SMITH: Were you a passenger on board the Titanic on the ill­fated voyage from Southampton to the place of accident?
MR. STENGEL: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: While you were on that voyage did you familiarize yourself with the speed of the Titanic?
MR. STENGEL: I did, the last day; particularly the last day, I did.
SENATOR SMITH: Particularly the day of the accident?
MR. STENGEL: The day of the accident; that is, from Saturday noon to Sunday noon.
SENATOR SMITH: Will you kindly tell the committee how you familiarized yourself with the speed, and what the speed was when you last informed yourself about it?
MR. STENGEL: As is usual in these voyages, there were pools made to bet on the speed that the boat would make, and at 12 o'clock, after the whistle blew, the people who had bet went to the smoking room, and came out and reported she had made 546 knots. I figured then that at 24 hours to a day we made 22 3/4 knots; but I was told I was mistaken; that I should have figured 25 hours.
SENATOR SMITH: Twenty­five hours for the day?
MR. STENGEL: Yes, on account of the elapsed time, I believe, which made it almost 22 knots an hour. At the same time a report came ­ this was the report that came from the engine room ­ that the engines were turning three revolutions faster than at any time on the voyage.
SENATOR SMITH: What time was that on Sunday?
MR. STENGEL: I should say about between 1 and 2 o'clock Sunday afternoon.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you have occasion to consult with anyone as to, or did you familiarize yourself with, the speed of the ship after that time?
MR. STENGEL: Not after that time, any more than that I called my wife's attention to the fact that the engines were running very fast. That was when I retired about 10 o'clock. I could hear the engines running when I retired, and I noticed that the engines were running fast. I said I noticed that they were running faster than at any other time during the trip.
SENATOR SMITH: How could you tell that?
MR. STENGEL: Just through being familiar with engines in the manufacturing business. We have bought a great many engines in 28 or 29 years, and we generally take the speed of the engine. We want to buy an engine that will run a certain speed to do a certain amount of work. It was just natural instinct, that was all.
SENATOR SMITH: Where were you when the accident happened?
MR. STENGEL: I had retired. My wife called me. I was moaning in my sleep. My wife called me, and says, "Wake up; you are dreaming;" and I was dreaming, and as I woke up I heard a slight crash. I paid no attention to it until I heard the engines stop. When the engines stopped I said, "There is something serious; there is something wrong. We had better go up on deck." I just put on what clothes I could grab, and my wife put on her kimono, and we went up to the top deck and walked around there. There were not many people around there. That was where the lifeboats were. We came down to the next deck, and the captain came up. I supposed he had come up from investigating the damage. He had a very serious and a very grave face. I then said to my wife, "This is a very serious matter, I believe." I think Mr. Widener and his wife ­ I think it was Mr. Widener ­ followed the captain up the stairs, and they returned, and I presume they went to their staterooms. Shortly after that the orders were given to have the passengers all put on life preservers. I went back to my stateroom and put a life preserver on my wife, and then she tied mine on. We went back up to the top deck. Then I heard the orders given to put all the women and children in the boats and have them go off about 200 yards from the vessel.
SENATOR SMITH: Who gave that order?
MR. STENGEL: It seemed to me an officer. Of course, I was a little bit agitated, and I heard them and I did not look particularly to see who it was. While they were loading the lifeboats, the officers or men who had charge of loading the lifeboats said, "There is no danger; this is simply a matter of precaution." After my wife was put in a lifeboat she wanted me to come with them, and they said, "No, nothing but ladies and children." After the five boats, I think it was, or the boats as far as I could see on the starboard side, were loaded, I turned toward the bow. I do not know what led me there, but there was a small boat that they called an emergency boat, in which there were three people, Sir Duff Gordon and his wife and Miss Francatelli. I asked the officer I could not see them it was so dark, and I presume I was agitated somewhat ­ I asked him if I could not get into that boat. There was no one else around, not a person I could see except the people working at the boats, and he said, "Jump in." The railing was rather high ­ it was an emergency boat and was always swung over toward the water ­ I jumped onto the railing and rolled into it. The officer then said, "That is the funniest sight I have seen to­night," and he laughed quite heartily. That rather gave me some encouragement. I thought perhaps it was not so dangerous as I imagined. After getting down part of the way there was a painter on the boat, and we were beginning to tip, and somebody hollered to stop lowering. Somebody cut that line and we went on down.
SENATOR SMITH: Describe this rail, if you can. Was it a guard?
MR. STENGEL: I do not know what they call it; a fence, like on the side. The other lifeboats were all loaded from the floor. You could step right from the floor into the lifeboats.
SENATOR SMITH: That was on the upper deck?
MR. STENGEL: That was on the boat deck; yes, sir; toward the bow.
SENATOR SMITH: And this rail was at the outside of the boat deck?
MR. STENGEL: It was just at the edge of the deck, just to keep people from falling over.
SENATOR SMITH: How high was it?
MR. STENGEL: I should judge it was about three feet and a half, or so.
SENATOR SMITH: Was there any opening in it?
MR. STENGEL: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Persons entering that boat were obliged to go over that rail?
MR. STENGEL: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Did your wife go over that rail?
MR. STENGEL: No sir; my wife was loaded three or four boats previous to that. We were up there quite early; that is, we were up there almost the first on the deck.
SENATOR SMITH: When you got down to the water, what happened?
MR. STENGEL: Just as I jumped into the boat some one else, a man named A. L. Solomon, appeared. I do not know where he appeared from, but he asked to get in and jumped in the boat with us. There were five passengers and, I understand, three stokers and two seamen; that is, five of the crew.
