Usenet 1994 October/usenetsourcesnewsgroupsinfomagicoctober1994disk1.iso/answers/music/industrial-faq/part1

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Subject: FAQ: rec.music.industrial Part 1/2 -- Questions and History
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Summary: This posting contains the Frequently Asked Questions
      file about industrial music and culture.  Anyone who
      wishes to subscribe/post to the rec.music.industrial
      newsgroup should read this first.
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Archive-name: music/industrial-faq/part1
Version: 3.1
Last-modified: November 6, 1993
Periodicity: 20 days



          +-------------------------------------------------------+
          |                          the                          |
          |                                                       |
          |   F R E Q U E N T L Y  A S K E D  Q U E S T I O N S   |
          |                                                       |
          |          (FAQ) file for rec.music.industrial          |
          |                                                       |
          +-------------------------------------------------------+

                      Original Editor: Big Thanks!
                              Dan Kletter
                          <[e-mail]>

                            Current Editor:
                            Darrell Fuhriman
                            <[e-mail]>

This is version 3.1 of the  Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) file
written for the rec.music.industrial (rmi) news group. Copies are
available on ftp sites and on request. Comments, corrections, and
queries regarding this file should be sent to the above address.

Many thanks to: (in no apparent order)

     Al Crawford             Mason Jones             Jeff Dauber
     David Vessell           Dave Stein              Greg Earle
     Adam Weitzman           Rob Vaughn              Seth Robson
     Joshua Buergel          "Uncle Klaus"           Dave Datta
     Valerie Ohm             Andrew Russ             Adrian Le Hanne
     Leo Breebaart           Ben Cox                 Terry Reed
     Mark Gunderson          John Davidson           Kritt Gierlefzen
     Georg Wallmann          "hortonee"              Jutta Degener
     <X>orcist               Paul Moore              Anders Holmberg
     Franck Arnaud           "@Man"                  Bob Haskins
     Piotr T. Prussak        Jennifer Davis          Jester
     Michael Lucas           Pete Ashdown            Peter Ceigen

if there is anyone that i have forgot, my apologies.

This file will be posted approximately every two weeks.
Last modified: November 6, 1993


----------------------- 8< cut here >8-----------------------------

TABLE OF CONTENTS

     PART 1 - Frequently Asked Questions File:
     [0] Other periodic postings
     [1] Intro
     [2] History
     [3] Charter
     [4] RMI CD Status
     [5] Important Facts
     [6] FTP servers
     [7] Mailing Lists

     PART 2 - Directory of Record Labels/Mail Order Sources/Contacts:
     [8] Major Record Labels
     [9] Distributors and Smaller Record Labels
     [10] Mail Order Sources and 'Zines

..........................................................................
[0] OTHER PERIODIC POSTINGS

You are currently reading the "offical" r.m.i. FAQ.  Other regular postings
include:

Jester's Net Industrial/EBM/Cyber Culture Band list, available from
[e-mail].  The list covers those bands on the net, and
includes reviews of their various work.  The list is posted monthly.

The Top Sample Sources List is a list of the most popular movies, tv-series,
presidents and other sample sources. The popularity is based on how frequently
spoken lines from these sources have been sampled and used in some sort of
musical context. The list has been compiled by Peter Cigehn, mainly by the help
of and contributions from the readers of r.m.i. Currently the list consists
of over 170 sources and about 800 different samples! The latest version of
the list can be obtained directly from Peter Cigehn by e-mail,
[e-mail]. Although the prefered way to obtain a copy is by
reading r.m.i. where the list is posted about once a month.

XDZebra Reviews covers the latest and greatest in dance music releases.
Mostly on the techno/house end of things with an occasional cyberpunk or
industrial review thrown in for good measure.  Postings periods vary anywhere
from one week to two months.  Contact [e-mail].  Back issues
are available by ftp at xmission.com under /pub/other/xdzebra.

..........................................................................
[1] INTRO

"In the gap caused by the failure of punk rock's apocalyptic rhetoric,
[the term] 'industrial' seemed like a good idea."--Jon Savage, London 1983

Experimental. Aggro. Techno. Cutups. Alternative. Noise. Ambient. Musique
Concrete. Sound Collages. Performance Art. Difficult. Improv. Industrial?
So many names and so many labels. It gets confusing when from all around
us, publications continue to spew out more complex and different names in
an attempt to pinpoint a source, while at the same time converging on one
obvious thought: industrial. To demonstrate this idea, we could even trace
these origins of industrial back to dadaism if we wanted to. This FAQ file
is less an attempt to force people into their place and more to widen the
flow of information. Sharing the precious information allows us to
experience more in our learning than by strange militaristic actions.


..........................................................................
[2] HISTORY

It is generally accepted that the term "industrial music" was coined in
1976 when members of Throbbing Gristle formed Industrial Records. It was
to be a vehicle to explore a new form of expression through analysis,
presentation and aural stimulation. All of the individuals involved used
different means to achieve their goals, but the ideas they shared were
on common ground. Examples of early people on the industrial label
include Monte Cazzazza, Clock DVA, Cabaret Voltaire, Throbbing Gristle,
Leather Nun, and William S. Burroughs. Although critics felt they were
too deviant, their brand of confrontation signaled a desire for a change
in the political and social system currently in place. However bleak and
distressing, their music was merely a reflection of the society that
surrounded them. But what's really important is that they cultivated
ideas on topics ranging from serial killing to sex and censorship as well
as countless others which are not encouraged in genteel discussions. This
was the first strike against the information war launched by the
propaganda leaders and it positioned them as more than just a musical
movement, but an alternative culture. To paraphrase, these essential
ideas are the makeup for the movement:

ORGANIZATIONAL AUTONOMY. A conscious choice to record independently. To
preserve the intention of music and to take it away from the tainted
and greedy major record companies who enjoyed success at others expense.

ACCESS TO INFORMATION. With the perception of control techniques leaving
any physical boundaries and moving into the realm of the mind and the mouth,
it was of vital importance to discuss and be aware at all times.

USE OF SYNTHESIZERS AND ANTI-MUSIC. Using found materials and
unconventional means of composition industrial music was more antagonistic
to its intended audience, than being music true itself. It was
"sounds without content".

EXTRA-MUSICAL ELEMENTS. Because television has become a more powerful
agent of control than any pop music song, the use of films and video
arrangements often accompanied these aural counter attacks.

SHOCK TACTICS. The final blow in the scheme for control has to be the use
of hitting home what you have to say, making sure that it gets noticed.
By far, this last technique is what is most often used by modern day
"industrialists" and most probably the connecting puzzle piece that gave
them such a distinction at all. Unfortunately, we've all witnessed death
and war so often in this day and age, that we're far too jaded to care,
rendering such an attempt almost useless.

Does this mean that industrial is now dead? Perhaps. But it cannot prevent
the presence of their past actions from being muted or lost. In the early
to late 80's a number of other groups began to interpret some of the audio
ideas to formulate their own territorial grounding. Mixing the use of new
technology, imaginative found (or homemade) materials, and the incorporation
of percussion and rhythm helped guide it into the new decade. Examples of
some of these bands would include: Non, SPK, Einstuerzende Neubauten,
Test Department, Laibach, Rhythm and Noise, Ono, and Trial.

By the end of the 80's, "industrial music" had more than just changed, it
had more or less, continued to progress and evolve alongside its society.
These days, it has often come to be known as electronic instrumentation used
to create a form of dance beats blended with harsh noises and sound bites
such as Skinny Puppy, Revolting Cocks, Ministry, Front 242 and Front Line
Assembly. Today, there are musicians who create industrial music from both
sides of the fence; and the list is ever growing.

The fascination with noise and machinery which is so much a part of what
one tends to think of as "classic" Industrial music had historic precedents
as far back as the 20s, with the "Futurist" and "Machine Music" schools
in both Italy and France. Other important historical figures include
Edgard Varese, whose "Ionisation" (1930) was the first piece of Western
music for percussion instruments alone and who produced an important tape
piece called "Poeme Electronique" in 1952; the "Musique Concrete" works of
Pierre Schaffer and others (tape pieces made exclusively from electronically
altering recordings of natural sounds like water drops, glass breaking,
etc.); and John Cage, whose "First Construction in Metal" (for metallic
percussion) and "Imaginary  Landscape No. 1" (for 12 radios) were landmarks
in American music.

[ for more information about industrial (experimental) music/history/
culture there are a few books you can read:

TAPE DELAY - SAF Publishing Ltd. (ISBN 0 946719 02 0)
REsearch #4/5: Burroughs/TG/Brion Gysin (ISBN 0-940642-05-0)
REsearch #6/7: The Industrial Culture Handbook (ISBN 0-940642-07-7)
REsearch #8/9: J.G. Ballard (ISBN 0-940642-08-5)
REsearch #11:  Pranks! (ISBN 0-940642-10-7)

for more info on how to contact REsearch Publications or SAF Publishers,
see the directory listing in Part 2. ]


............................................................................
[3] CHARTER

rec.music.industrial is an unmoderated newsgroup which passed its vote for
creation by 411:80 as reported in news.announce.newgroups on 23 May 1991.

For your newsgroups file:
rec.music.industrial    Discussion of all industrial-related music styles.

The charter, culled from the call for votes:

Rec.music.industrial is for the discussion of all industrial-related music
styles, including traditional industrial (i.e. Einstuerzende Neubauten,
Throbbing Gristle, Cabaret Voltaire, etc.), dance-industrial ('cyberpunk'
i.e. Ministry, Skinny Puppy, Front 242, Foetus, etc.) and hard techno music
(i.e. Kraftwerk, etc.).  Reviews of new releases, related news items,
concert information, and other types of discussion are encouraged.


..........................................................................
[4]  RMI CD Status

The management of the RMI CD has been transferred from Ben Cox to Steve
Boswell.  Steve is the person responsible for the highly successful
Negativconcertland bootleg.

In order to get the CD out, Steve has asked all the original buyers
to send three dollars to subsidize the new pressing.  The pressing will
be with the same company that put out the Negativconcertland CD.  CMSI
has gone out of business, taking your money with them.

Info is available from: [e-mail].  Steve Boswell's address is
[e-mail]

..........................................................................
[5] IMPORTANT FACTS

-> The ADRV in Crash Worship's name stands for "Adoracion de Rotura
Violenta," which more or less means "Crash Worship" in Spanish.

-> No member of Front 242 is a member of Bigod 20. Jean-Luc DeMeyer, the
lead singer of Front 242, was a guest on Bigod 20's song 'The Bog,' and he
sang it and wrote the lyrics. Aside from the similarities in the two bands'
music, this is the only direct connection between the two bands. (And also
the fact that they are five-letter words followed by numbers.)

-> There is some confusion over what is at the end of Front 242's album
TYRANNY FOR YOU. According to Transmission 242 originally,the songs were
called simply 'Bonus Track I' and 'Bonus Track II.' However, upon further
prodding, they replied that the pieces do have titles. The first one is
called 'Hard Rock.' The second one, according to the letter received, is
called 'Trigger 3.' However, it is believed that this is a misprint, and
instead it should be called 'Trigger 1,' because the band had released
a (longer) song also called 'Trigger 3' on one of their TRAGEDY remix EPs.

-> The footage for video to 'Mindphaser' by Front Line Assembly was taken
from the Japanese movie 'Gunhed.'  Gunhed stands for 'un UNit Heavy
Elimination Device'. The original release was in Japan in July 1989.  The US
version followed in 1991.

-> Laibach's politics does not take sides in anything. Laibach is part of a
collective of artists called NSK or Neue Slowenische Kunst. Upon entrance
you are supposed to get rid of your political views. Laibach are merely
'by-standers' and commentators in our world of chaos. The most important
point though is that totalitarianism and oppression are not exclusive to
facism but also to: communism, christianity and capitalistic consumerism.

Since the entire NSK bases its work on the retro principle, it means that the
facist imagery is real (taken from actual Nazi art), the music is also based
on other music originally not composed by Laibach. The most clear cut
examples are: Beatles, Queen, Opus, and the glorified Macbeth is nothing more
than a re-make of some classical stuff.

What makes Laibach very unique though, is the overall designs of their work.
They ususlly manage to collage one idea with its opposite. Some of the
artwork included on their disks was originally done by anti-Nazi activists;
however, its out-of-context use leads one to associate it with Nazis. Laibach
stresses the idea that one can't be sure of the real meaning of symbolry,
that no one knows all of the history.

-> The proper spelling for the band Negativland is without the 'e'. Their
name was lifted from the Neu album BLACK FOREST GATEAU. On that album one
can
find tracks named "Negativland" and "Seeland." The first one is obviously the
band name, and the second is the name of the band's record label (before they
got on to SST, of course). Negativland means "negative country" or "country
of negativity" in German and Seeland means "country of the sea."

-> the NiN releases go as follows: Halo One is the 'Down In It' vinyl 12".
Halo Two is PRETTY HATE MACHINE, Halo Three is the 'Head Like a Hole' 12"
and the CD single, Halo Four is the 'Sin' single, Halo Five is the
'Broken' EP, Halo Six is the 'Fixed' remix EP and the UK 'Head Like A Hole'
single is Haloless.

-> Additionally, it is important to note that Nine Inch Nails is only one
person, Trent Reznor from Cleveland (he does tour with a band but they don't
appear on the album). There is only one album out, but an EP containing
a 3" CD single has been released and a remix EP of that EP.

-> The correct definition of Einstuerzende Neubauten is "collapsing new
buildings" where "collapsing" is an adjective, not a verb. examples:

     einstuerzen - v., to collapse
     einstuerzende - adj., collapsing, in a state of collapse

-> According to the radio-promo release of 'Interim' the name is pronounced:
INE-SHTUR-ZEN-DEH NOY-BOUT-TEN

-> "Neubauten" generally refers to buildings built in a particular style,
rather than to *any* recently constructed buildings.  The style in
question is the impersonal concrete-box modernist style.  Most housing
projects (especially the huge towers built in the 60's) are perfect
examples of Neubauten.

-> Einstuerzende Neubauten chose their name when the Berlin 'Kongresshalle'
collapsed around 1980. The building is located close to the Reichstag
and was a gift of the US allies to the city of Berlin. The Kongresshalle
is shaped a bit like an oister, was used for all kinds of exhibitions
and meetings and finally collapsed due to its cheap 60's concrete/metal
construction. A journalist died, a few more were injured and several cars
were smashed. After a rather long public discussion the Berlin government
decided to rebuild the Kongresshalle since it was a symbol for the
friendship between Germany and the US.

-> Additionally, to be strictly correct on a Western keyboard, it should be
Einstuerzende (the proper way to indicate an umlaut over the 'u' is to just
write it as 'ue').

-> Alain Jourgensen (of Ministry fame) is not and never was a member of
Pigface.

-> "Sozialistische Patienten Klinik" or SPK named themselves after a
group of mental patients who formed an anarchist collective (inspired by
the Baader-Meinhoff Gang) and then blew themselves up trying to make
explosives. Their name changed on every release to things such as
standing for "Systems Planning Korporation", "Surgical Penis Klinik",
and "SePpuKu."

-> Concerning folks in sKINNY pUPPY: Nivek Ogre's real name is "Kevin
Ogilvie". He grew up in Calgary. David Ogilvie is no relation to Ogre. The
same last names are a coincidence. He moved to Vancouver from Montreal in the
very early 80's. David Ogilvie's nickname is "Rave" and has been for a very
long time. Rave's wife (Rosie) is credited as "Mowse" on the old CLEANSE,
FOLD & MANIPULATE track 'Tear or Beat'. All of the above (and the other
members of the Vancouver cadre) are very nickname-happy. cEVIN and Dwayne
both have nicknames as well. Other people outside the camp get branded with
nicknames if they're around Rave or Ogre too long.

-> Just because sometimes "Rave" is listed and sometimes the more formal
"David Ogilvie" is listed doesn't mean they aren't the same person. There are
credits that say "Ogre" just as there are credits that say "K. Ogilvie".

-> "Green guy" is a context-sensitive descriptor. It can mean a particularly
potent form of Pot, or the person who is the delivery boy for said Pot. it
is also used as in the credits for some pUPPY albums.

-> Everyone thinks that BACK AND FORTH exists in 50 copies. After all, it
does say words to that effect on it, right? This is not the case. There's
only *35* real copies.  cEVIN made all of them himself.  He "pooped out"
after those 35, so #36-#50 DON'T EXIST. There's more. Of those 35 copies,
there's "Mark I" and "Mark II". The first 10 (or was it 15?) were hand-
dubbed by cEVIN from the four-track master. Those are the "good" ones. The
remainder were dup'ed on a high-speed double-cassette deck, and are thus
deemed (by cEVIN) to be of "lower quality".

-> BACK AND FORTH has been re-issued on CD. it is the first part along with
other "rarities" and unreleased material as part of a "10 year Skinny Puppy
retrospective CD" that is in the works. The BAD news is that it (B&F) is
*re-mixed* and not just re-issued :-( It is being re-done by "Hi-Watt"
Marshall, the guy who engineered the last Hilt album. (Rave Ogilvie is livid
over this.) there are two flavors of the re-issued Back and Forth CD:
the regular limited edition release and the "ultra" limited edition
release that comes packaged in a steel box with a numbered and signed
photo.

-> the recording of sKINNY pUPPY's AIN'T IT DEAD YET was mastered as one
long track because it's intended to be listened to from start to finish, like
watching a concert. In order to get the whole experience, you have to listen
to the whole thing.

-> For LAST RIGHTS, "song 4 on side 2" of the cassette is the same thing as
"song 10 on the CD" which is the same thing as "Left Handshake", the track
that samples Timothy Leary from "Tune in, turn on, drop out" which is the
same track that isn't there because the copyright holders on said Timothy
Leary quoted speech rescinded permission for the band to use the samples.
It may emerge as a one-sided 7", to be given away to people at their
upcoming tour shows if you buy some tour merchandise; or it may suddenly
appear out of (K)nowhere courtesy of some annoited bootleggers.  It has also
been reported that Leary is working to get the rights to his speech back so SP
can use it.

-> Re: Tear Garden's album, TIRED EYES SLOWLY BURNING, the credits in
vinyl copies for the song "You and Me and Rainbows" clearly state:

     Edward Ka-Spel: Voice, keyboards, tapes
     cEVIN Key: Keyboards, rhythm box, guitar, radio, tapes, voice
     D. Rudolph Goettel: Keyboards
     Lee Salford: Drums
     N. Ogre: Voice
     Lisa: Lady voice
     Rave: Guitar, tapes

Note that "Lee Salford" was the drummer for Section 25 at one time, and
"Lisa" is a woman who I believe was Cevin's girlfriend at the time.

-> 1000 Homo DJs work was originally done as an Al Jourgensen solo project
concurrent with the LAND OF RAPE AND HONEY work. The vinyl EP of APATHY was
released  about six months post LORAH. When Al decided that Trent Reznor
should do the vocals for 'Supernaut', Steve Gotlieb (president of TVT), who
was already unhappy with Trent because of his legal filings against him,
told Wax Trax that any productions using Trent Reznor's voice is in
violation of Trent's contract with TVT. So the CD5 was released with the
original Jourgenson vocals. the CD5 itself was released containing the two
new songs, 'Supernaut' and 'Hey Asshole' as well as what was on the APATHY
EP, 'Apathy' and 'Better Ways'.

-> KMFDM stands for Kein Mitleid fuer die Mehrheit which in English
means "No pity For The Majority." It has been argued that the name
really means nothing because the liner notes for their album, WHAT DO
YOU KNOW, DEUTSCHLAND (WaxTrax! Records) have it listed as meaning:

     "Kein Mehrheit fur die Mitleid"

however, the proper use of the prhase would be:

     "Kein Mitleid fuer die Mehrheit"

(mit=with,leid=pain -> Pity; Mehr=more,heit=-ness -> Majority)

which also uses the genders correctly.

-> other uses such as "Kill Mother Fucking Depeche Mode", "Krispy Mutant
Fish Dealing Mescaline" or even "Kyle Minogue Fans Don't Masteurbate" is
just a joke.

-> Survival Research Labs now has an answering machine system which you can
get info from. Unfortunately, the current messages do not give any dates for
performances.  It does however have a menu which allows you to get info on
past shows, legal problems, being an SRL volunteer, and current machines
working or being developed. Call: 1 + 415 641-8065


...........................................................................
[6] FTP SERVERS

-> The anonymous FTP address for the rmi FAQ is:

     rtfm.mit.edu /pub/usenet/rec/music/industrial

not only will you find the rmi FAQ there, you will find about every other FAQ
as well.


->      bradley.bradley.edu or (136.176.10.11)

Contains the EFN back issues. Also present are transcribed lyrics
(currently Ministry and Negativland) and a few discographies.

-> The discography archives are currently available via e-mail request
from Dave Datta <[e-mail]> and/or via anonymous FTP at:

          ftp.uwp.edu (131.210.1.4)

The archive is organized by letter, then by name.  So, if you were looking for
Coil, you would look in:

/pub/music/artists/c/coil

This directory then has the following links in it:

discog -> /pub/music/discog/coil
lyrics -> /pub/music/lyrics/coil
pictures -> /pub/music/pictures/coil
reviews -> /pub/music/reviews/coil

There are thousands of discographies in the archives as well as
tons of lyrics at this time. Submissions are always welcome. A sample
FTP session/help file is also available via mail request from the
administrator.

-> The files that comprise Factsheet Five Electric (the zine of zines)
are available for online reading or downloading from the WELL, via ftp
from either:

     ftp.msen.com (148.59.1.8) /pub/newsletters/F5-E

or      src.doc.ic.ac.uk /literary/newsletters/factsheet-five

These are freely distributable. Questions regarding F5 Electronic
should be addressed to Jerod Pore <[e-mail].>

-> The general rule for all anonymous ftp sites is:

     1. When prompted for a user name, type 'anonymous'.

     2. When prompted for a password, type your full e-mail address.

This will work for the vast majority of ftp sites, including the ones above.

...........................................................................
[7] MAILING LISTS

This list is woefully incomplete, so if you maintain a list or are on one
let me know and I'll get it included.  I know EFN is still out there, and
would apprecitate more info.

Smothered Hope:
     Taking it's name from the early Skinny Puppy song, it exists
for the disucssion of (you guessed it) Skinny Puppy's music.
<[e-mail]>

Noise:
     For the discussion of all noise related groups.
<[e-mail]>

The Indie-List:
     The Indie-List is a digest of reviews and other info for listeners of
idependent music (not just industrial).  Requests for addition to the list
should be sent to
Liz Clayton <[e-mail]>.

Gothic Guitar Tab:
    For guitarists wishing to exchange tabulature.
<[e-mail]>

Net Industrialists:

For all net bands on the net industrial/ebm/cybercultre band list
to chat, share trade secrets, etc
<[e-mail]>

4ad music:
For the 4ad record label.
<[e-mail]> Leave subject line blank.  Place only this
in message: subscribe 4ad-1 {your name}