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Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 121. 11-06-89 9:11.04 (NO KILL) (RECV'D)
From: Doug Purdy
To: Doug Mair
Subject: RUN BBS 603-924-9704
ALSO SEE: 115.
I've got Nov, Oct and Sept issues of RUN. No wonder I couldn't find the
number if it's hidden in the letters to the editor! I'll take a look too.
Thanks!
Doug
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 122. 11-06-89 9:14.43 (NO KILL) (RECV'D)
From: Doug Purdy
To: Chris Schmidt
Subject: CP/M ON THE 1581
ALSO SEE: 116, 125.
CP/M's faster on the 1581 than the 1571. The big plus with the 1571 is
that you can do things like buy used software super cheap on another disk
format (another CP/M type machine) and with Jugg'ler 128 you could tranfer
it or use it as is. You also get to transfer back and forth from MS-DOS
disks with a PD program.
I don't really need a CP/M word processor as I bought WordPerfect for
MS-DOS back when I had my own business - our clients were using
WordPerfect and it wasn't as easy to transfer things back and forth then.
Now, however, ZDE in CP/M would handle 99.99% of my needs.
If I had to do heavy duty writing and owned a C128, I would probably use
PaperClip as I used it for years in business. What-You-See-Is-What-You-Get
is a great help though, as is the ability to handle documents of any
length. I would take a serious look at WordStar as you could probably run
the whole thing including document in the REU where it would be very fast.
It wouldn't be too bad on the 1581 either, but I suspect a large document
on the 1571 would get extremely slow.
PaperClip III comes with a spell checker, is Wordstar's included in the
price of the package? "Mail merge" may be extra for Wordstar but other
wordprocessors usually include it.
Last, there is probably quite a difference between WordStar 2 and WordStar
4, the current version, I think. Gerry Moss sent away for the current
version recently and may soon be able to tell us about it.
Another plus for WordStar, it would be very easy to transfer files to the
office. Most if not all of the formatting would probably translate too. In
WordPerfect, you use an included program called CONVERT to go back and
forth from Wordstar.
Trans128.com or TRANS12C.LBR ? here is a PD program that transfers files
on a 1571 CP/M <--> MS-DOS.
Doug
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 123. 11-06-89 9:43.44 (NO KILL) (RECV'D)
From: Doug Purdy
To: Howard Herman
Subject: BTP, BBR
ALSO SEE: 117, 160.
Hi Howie,
Sounds like Bob's Term Pro 128 has a lot of features I don't know about
either. One of the interesting points about BTP is that it can tranfer
files directly to/from C128 CP/M disks, which helps you avoid the mass of
floppies you get when you're using, say, PaperClip III to d/l CP/M files
to native C128, then using RDCBM to bring them into CP/M - you end up with
twice the number of floppies.
I own Big Blue Reader, but mine's the very old version. I hated having to
type in individual file names so much I never bought the new version - I
just didn't trust the programmer after a number of times having to
transfer many files CBM <--> MS-DOS and finding I had to deal with each
file one at a time. Turned a half hour job into a day's work!
It's not STILL like that is it? If it is, it's much faster to do it with
RS232 (manhour wise, if not in machine hours).
Doug
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 124. 11-06-89 9:59.51 (NO KILL) (RECV'D)
From: Doug Purdy
To: Doug Mair
Subject: FILES ON RUN BBS
ALSO SEE: 119.
Thanks VERY much Doug!
It seems like the idea of some of us buying their monthly disks and
sharing them here may not work then. If they don't even put their files on
their own bbs! Maybe it can be done at a reasonable cost through Q-Link,
but then we may find a clause saying you can't upload anywhere else.
The only programs I ever typed in were way back when I first started
computing, SpeedScript was an exception, but that quality is unusual. I've
never bought one of their disks, though friends have given me a copy here
and there - actually I don't think I still have any around as most
magazine programs somehow don't seem to get used around here very often -
does the word "vaporware" apply?
I'm in a bit of a quandry. I hate copy protection! But if I don't follow
the licensor's wishes, how can I ever expect copy protection to stop?
My personal view is that it would be good for magazines if their programs
were freely available on bbses - I think more people would buy the
magazines. If I find that I can't convince them, I guess I would have to
respect their wishes.
But it burns me to know that out of the $10-15 I would pay for any disk,
50% of that would go for unnecessary costs. Costs that could be avoided if
would be paid for by increased subscriptions -->extra advertising revenue?
these things were availabl on local bbses. Maybe most of the rest
I will have to discuss this with the magazines soon.
Doug
P.S. Line editor fun - last 2 lines ofthe paragraph above are in the wrong
order.
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 125. 11-08-89 13:13.52 (NO KILL)
From: John Milligan
To: Doug Purdy
Subject: CP/M ON THE 1581/WORDSTAR
ALSO SEE: 122.
Quick Addendum to the notes on CP/M - WOrdStar
WordStar Release 4.0 DOES have a spell-checker ( and some other neat
dictionary related programs - but no thesaurus)
Also included is a (powerful) mail merge feature.
John M.
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 126. 11-10-89 21:53.02
From: Doug Mair
To: Doug Purdy
Subject: Q-LINK C128 LIST
Finally got the above copied and popped it in the mail tonight. Hope it
proves useful as a reference for you as to what C128 PD software is
available. I'll be pulling the plug on Q-link at the end of this month,
so if you see any prgm that you might be interested in let me know before
then and I can either obtain the info or D/load it for you. The above list
as you will see provides little other than title, U/loader and general
category. On-line you can find prgm descriptions, prgm length and
sometimes comments from people who have D/loaded the particular prgm.
*DOUG*
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 127. 11-11-89 17:32.07 (NO KILL) (RECV'D)
From: Doug Purdy
To: Chris Schmidt
Subject: CPM
ALSO SEE: 133.
=====[ Canada Remote Systems 232 ]=====[ 11-11-89 ]=====[ 17:13.10 ]=====
Date: 11-07-89 (11:48) MAIN Number: 21111 (Echo)
To: DOUG PURDY
From: cbmvax.commodore.com!fred Read: NO
Subj: MAY 87 CPM+.SYS Status: RECEIVER ONLY
From utcsri!cbmvax.commodore.com!fred Thu Nov 9 14:17:26 1989
remote from tmsoft Received: from tmsoft.uucp by masnet.fidonet.org
(MaS-Relayer)
via localphone with Uucp; Fri, 10 Nov 89 2:18:15 EST
Received: by tmsoft.UUCP (smail2.3)
id AA22242; 9 Nov 89 14:17:26 EST (Thu)
Received: from rutgers.edu (-:RUTGERS.EDU:-) by
yonge.csri.toronto.edu via TCP with SMTP id AA22362; Tue, 7 Nov 89
18:55:02 EST Received: from cbmvax.UUCP by rutgers.edu
(5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.2/3.04) with UUCP
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id AA08765; Tue, 7 Nov 89 14:48:09 EST
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 89 14:48:09 EST
From: cbmvax.commodore.com!fred (Fred Bowen)
Message-Id: <8911071948.AA08765@cbmvax.UUCP>
Subject: Re: MAY 87 CPM+.SYS
> A user on my hobby bbs at Toronto, Ontario, Canada uploaded the May '87
> CPM+.SYS file for Commodore 128 CP/M, the BIOS that understands the
> Commodore 1581 disk drive.
>
> QUESTION 1: Can I make the May 28 '87 CPM+.SYS available to my users?
I have been asked this many times, and have been over the issues
involved with both our legal people and DRI. Commodore's hands are
tied- the BIOS contains DRI copyrighted code, and DRI has not allowed
Commodore to distribute it without a license and royalty payment for
each copy. Therefore, no, you cannot make it available to your users.
I personally think the situation stinks, but it's not my code and
therefore not my decision to make.
> He said that this file was available on Compuserve on the basis that it
> is only useful to C128 owners whose basic CP/M licence was included in
> the price of their machine. Another user believes the cost of this
> CPM+.SYS is not included in the 1581 and that we must pay for it.
This is incorrect. I was told some time ago the code was on
Compuserve. I informed the legal department, who instructed
the telcom department to have Compuserve remove it. To my
knowledge they did so.
> QUESTION 2: Do we need to pay for the May 28 '87 CPM+.SYS?
Yes- because Commodore must make royalty payments to DRI.
> I understand FOG (First Osborne Group) also has something to enable C128
> owners to use their 1581 disk drives in CP/M mode, but it could be a
> patch or the genuine CPM+.SYS from Commodore. The file on
> Compuserve may be the genuine file.
I spoke to FOG about the same time I heard about the Compuserve
upload. They were told they could NOT distribute it. There are
patches available which allow one to use a 1581, and I suspect
this is what FOG has available.
> As two of my users have described long delays in getting the May '87
> CPM+.SYS file from West Chester, I would like to get permission to make
> it freely available to users of my bbs, and members of Canada Remote
> Systems Limited BBS, and TPUG users group's disk sales and bbs.
I keep kicking the service group over the delays. I have not heard
any compaints in a long time, but I'm not naive enough to think the
problem has gone away. I'll check on it again. Regarding permission
to distribute it, I'll reluctantly raise the issue with the legal
department one more time, but I'm sure it will come down to the fact
it's DRI's copyright and DRI's decision.
> QUESTION 3: Can we get permission to make available free, or at a cost?
The problem is that each copy must be serialized and reported
to DRI. Since DRI has "discontinued" support for CP/M, perhaps
this policy has changed.
> QUESTION 4: Is there anything on your 3.5" disk but the new CPM+.SYS,
> FORMAT.COM and the DRI offer files which many of us already
> purchased?
The diskette is full. It contains 4 user areas containing utilities,
assembler, etc., and sundry source code for the CBM stuff.
I'm sorry if this does not sound encouraging- I'm probably just as
frustrated as you and the users!
Fred Bowen uucp: {uunet|rutgers|pyramid}!cbmvax!fred
arpa: cbmvax!fred@uunet.uu.net
tele: 215 431-9100
Commodore Electronics, Ltd., 1200 Wilson Drive, West Chester, PA,19380
---
* Via MaSNet/HST96/HST144/V32 - Private EMail
* Via Usenet Newsgroup PRIVATE
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 129. 11-12-89 9:38.55 (NO KILL) (RECV'D)
From: Ray Whidden
To: Ken Poulton
Subject: CP/M ON THE C128
ALSO SEE: 100.
Hi Ken,
Re: terminal still locks up...
Please leave me a message with more information on this problem. I
cannot remember whether I use the script read feature of MEX and if I did,
I have had some experience with that locking up. Otherwise, MEX has been
mostly trouble free, except with a problem common to MEX & IMP: I do not
get error free message base saves to disk/Ramdisk. Somewhere along the
line it looks like the slowness of the C=128 just allows the terminal to
get hopelessly confused and I have to kill the save. QTERM128 pretty well
solves that problem with one remaining annoyance: the Control -S's that
tell the host to wait seem to be saved in the buffer/file as well. That
means I have edit them out but at least I get a usable file. Failing that,
I use Dialogue VERSION 1.0 as even version 2.0 fails on message buffer
saves to my 512KB buffer with 1670. Seems to work OK with a GVC2400 so
must have something to do with the old 1670 I have. Short saves to a
smaller buffer seem OK. Regards, Ray
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 130. 11-12-89 9:46.08 (NO KILL) (RECV'D)
From: Ray Whidden
To: Gerry Moss
Subject: Z-SYSTEM
ALSO SEE: 102, 143.
Hi Gerry,
Let me know your impressions when you get Z3Plus. I think you will be
pleased. What machine will you be running it on, as well as the
configuration: Ramdisk, disk drives, etc.?
Thanks for the GEnie files. However, I just D/L and found them to be
in C= PETASCII so had to go through the hassle of shipping them over to a
CBM disk to convert them to ASCII. I don'T kt know of any CP/M utility tha
t converts files in CP/M mode from CBM/PETASCII to ASCII. Big Blue Reader
and RDCBM do the conversion on the way from CBM to CP/M. To cause less
grief to others, either do the conversion (if you can) at your end OR
label the files in the filename or file description as being PETASCII
rather than ASCII. Otherwise, there is plenty of good stuff in the three
files and I see others in the C=128 and C areas. Much appreciated. Will
be making up a wish list for either Doug or CRS. Regards, Ray
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 131. 11-12-89 9:52.42 (NO KILL) (RECV'D)
From: Ray Whidden
To: Doug Purdy
Subject: MEX DOC FILE
ALSO SEE: 105, 138.
Hi Doug,
I have a couple of utilities for the problem you are describing : high
bits set by WS and splitting large files. Frankly, those are two reasons
I am also going to get WS4.0 as I have gone through the process of
splitting files into VDE/ZDE size bites, editting and rejoining but the
last time I might of done that was with SD138B.ASM and I just dug out my
copy of WS2.26. Within minutes, the file was changed, assembled and
working; without all the hassle. Regards, Ray
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 132. 11-12-89 10:00.10 (NO KILL) (RECV'D)
From: Ray Whidden
To: Joe Janakovic
Subject: 1581 -> IBM
ALSO SEE: 114, 149.
Hi Joe,
Several people I know have Big Blue Reader 128 ver 2.x and like it very
much. It is reasonably priced order directly from Sogwap/Mike Miller but
Briwall sell for about $10-15.00 ($US) cheaper. Delivery from Sogwap is
less than two weeks. The only problem is disks formatted on a 1581 cannot
be read on a IBM PS/2 Model 50 but disks formatted on the IBM could be
written to by the C=128 with BBR128 and read by the IBM. Not a real big
problem. Also, the format for 5.25/3.5" disks does NOT write MS-DOS boot
tracks OR the three files needed to boot from a PC disk. These are
intended for work disks only. Thus, if you have a PC program like Quick C,
which expects to find a copy of COMMAND.COM (like CP/M CCP.COM) you have
to copy it separately, unlike the IBM format, which puts them there
automatically if you say FORMAT A: /S to say you want system files.
Version 3.0 is being advertised in recent copies of Commodore magazines:
RUN or COMPUTE!'s Gazette and supports IBM sub-directories.
I am ordering DosDisk from Jay Sage, to permit me to read/write etc IBM
disks as if they were native disks in CP/M mode. The same as MG Juggler
does for hundreds of other CP/M formats. Will let you know how it works.
Regards, Ray
For ordering info for BBR128, see any recent C= magazine or leave me a
message.
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 134. 11-13-89 13:26.41 (RECV'D)
From: John Milligan
To: Doug Purdy
Subject: FILE DESCRIPTION
ALSO SEE: 140.
Hi Doug,
I uploaded a file - WS4COL.ARK - and before I could enter a file
description, I found myself looking at the CP/M prompt. (Damn MEX!)
The file seems to be there but n o description - can this be added in?
It should say : Patch colors etc. for Wordstar 4 on C128
(or something like that)
John M.
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 136. 11-13-89 18:14.34
From: Ralph Schwarz
To: All
Subject: CP/M TO CBM?
ALSO SEE: 144.
Hi!
Is there any known PD utility that will take a CP/M text file, and
allow me to put it on a CBM disk? I know Xlink is such a utility, but
this file that I have is about 140K, where Xlink only can handle 45K. I
got some text on an IBM disk, which I transferred to CP/M, then to get it
to work on GEOS, I would like to convert it to CBM format (ie. disk).
Thanks for the help! :)
TTYL,
Ralph!
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 138. 11-14-89 9:57.59 (NO KILL) (RECV'D)
From: Doug Purdy
To: Ray Whidden
Subject: MEX DOC FILE
ALSO SEE: 131, 147.
I think I hear you saying that it takes a lot of time to split the files
and change the WS high bits. So long thatit alone makes it worth it to buy
WS 4?
Doug - I think the strike has gone on too long - the term may be
cancelled!
Good thing your course is at night - night courses were not affected.
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 139. 11-14-89 10:03.16 (NO KILL) (RECV'D)
From: Doug Purdy
To: Ray Whidden
Subject: CPM
ALSO SEE: 133.
Fred Bowen does actually seem to be interested in the C128 and tries to
help from what I've seen. Not sure about the rest of the folks at
Commodore.
Guess we should be careful not to drive Fred crazy with trivial questions
though.
Doug
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 140. 11-14-89 10:08.53 (NO KILL) (RECV'D)
From: Doug Purdy
To: John Milligan
Subject: FILE DESCRIPTION
ALSO SEE: 134, 145.
I will add the file decscription. It's not much trouble - there's a
sysop's tools package that makes this easy - especially when you've given
me the description the file should have. Figuring that out is the hard
part, not typing the description.
Thanks for the file, Doug
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 141. 11-14-89 10:29.58 (NO KILL) (RECV'D)
From: Doug Purdy
To: Chris Schmidt
Subject: 1571
ALSO SEE: 156.
Congrats on the new 1571! With that and the 1581 you'll be in great shape
for CP/M and GEOS.
Doug
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 142. 11-14-89 21:02.03 (NO KILL)
From: Doug Purdy
To: All
Subject: C128 BBS FEATURES SURVEY
Copied from:
=====[ TPUG ]=====[ 11-13-89 ]=====[ 11:39.35 ]=====
Msg # : 577 of 585 - Ref 35521
From : MICHAEL E. MILYAN (+3)
To : ALL
Rec'd : 0043h on 11-Nov-89 * TPUG
Subject: Commodore 128 Owners?!
Base : C128
Node : Toronto, ONT
Mailed : 2340h on 10-Nov-89 * EastYork
Hello All
I was wondering how many users out there have a Commodore 128 or 128D and
are either running a BBS off it or are interested on running a board?
Also, how many would run a board if they could get software which ran as
fast as PC PunterNet and had just as many features for the 128?
What features would you look for in a 128 Mode BBS program?
Any Comments?
Michael
-----
The East York BBS
- Toronto, ONT * Node 3
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 143. 11-14-89 22:50.10 (NO KILL) (RECV'D)
From: Gerry Moss
To: Ray Whidden
Subject: Z-SYSTEM
ALSO SEE: 130, 148.
Sorry about the ASCII/PETASCII mixup. It was late and I lost track of
what I was doing. It won't happen again! I am just now getting to reading
the ZCPR docs and help files. I also got the BDS C v1.6 and BDS Z v2.0 C
compiler systems at the same time. Along with that I got a subscription to
The Computer Journal, first issue arrived today, with columns by Jay Sage,
and Bridger Mitchell. Have to read it yet. Z-system looks great at first
impression. I'll give you more in-depth feedback later.
Regards, Gerry
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 144. 11-14-89 23:11.34 (NO KILL) (RECV'D)
From: Gerry Moss
To: Ralph Schwarz
Subject: CP/M TO CBM?
ALSO SEE: 136, 157.
Ralph, if you have a 1750 REU, there is a file here in file area #11,
called RDREU128.ARC, that will do the job for you. I have d/l it and can
vouch for it. I was frustrated by the same size barrier as you. It lets
you load the text file into the CP/M ram disk M: and then you reboot to
native 128 mode, run a Basic prg, and voila! you can get the file out of
the REU. Hope this helps.
Regards, Gerry
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 147. 11-17-89 11:18.39 (NO KILL) (RECV'D)
From: Ray Whidden
To: Doug Purdy
Subject: MEX DOC FILE
ALSO SEE: 138, 154, 155.
Hi Doug,
Re: splitting files/stripping WS high bits
It's not that it really takes a lot of time, even with a 100KB + file.
It's just the age old computer junky complaint, if there's a nicer/elegant
solution, use it. WordStar is a virtual memory program, that reads a file
as big as the two disks you have (if you're using one drive, them up to
ABOUT 1/2 the size of a disk - you have to leave some room for adding a
few characters!!!). WS a:file1.ext b: reads the file from A: and writes
the new file on B:. No other word processing program for the Commodore
8-bit machines does that. I've done both and have decided to spring for
WS4.
I see the other day, the government stepped in. Looked pretty much
normal at classes on Wed night. Sorta like the TTC strike with not much
being settled but I understand why you had to go out.
Nice to see the extra HD drive on the system. Will have to get to work
adding some CP/M stuff. I see some others have ordered Z3Plus. Are you
interested? I've ordered DosDisk, like Jugg'ler, but adds MS-Dos R/W
capability as if it was a native CP/M format so I install it and DIR
rather than running TRANS128. Will let you know how it works. Needed
something to move files back and forth for the C course. Regards, Ray
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 148. 11-17-89 11:29.36 (NO KILL) (RECV'D)
From: Ray Whidden
To: Gerry Moss
Subject: Z-SYSTEM
ALSO SEE: 143, 150.
Hi Gerry,
Re: received software
Must feel a bit like Christmas arrived early!!! Must order The
Computer Journal myself. Ordered DosDisk so I can more conveniently move
files from MS-Dos <--> CP/M for a C course I'm taking in which we use
Quick C on PC's at Centennial College/Progress. Will post a message when
I've had a chance to use it. Let us know about the BDS C packages. If I
can help with Z3+, let me know. I've got an alias to compile/ASM/Link my
Aztec C programs that has IFs and ELSEs. Also, have some files that work
with ENV variables. Lots to try. Regards, Ray
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 150. 11-18-89 1:15.52 (NO KILL) (RECV'D)
From: Gerry Moss
To: Ray Whidden
Subject: Z-SYSTEM
ALSO SEE: 148, 175.
Thanks for the help offer, Ray. I've d/l some Z-System help files ffrom
CRS. Can you point out some good Z-System p/d utilities I should have? All
I have right now is the purchased package. Jay Sage runs a Z-System
conference on GEnie the first Wednesday of the month at 10 pm; I had to
miss the last one (out of twon on business), but plan to attend the
December one with lots of questions.
Regards, Gerry
Msg Base: #5 - CP/M and C128
Msg No: 151. 11-19-89 3:43.37 (NO KILL) (RECV'D)
From: Doug Purdy
To: John Milligan
Subject: FILE DESCRIPTION
ALSO SEE: 145, 168.
No, John, still not sure how to handle files for registered users. I've
been working on the Call Thru thing as CRS asked me to start this a long
time ago and I don't want to keep them waiting forever.
I don't think there's any good way to handle file areas like there is
message areas - message areas can be set so that people have to apply to
get in, then be approved by the sysop, before they have access to a
particular message base. This would be ideal for registered users of
commercial software, but I don't think I can set file areas to act like
this. There are other ways though.
We could use the message areas and uuencoded files left as messages, but
this is cumbersome. Still there may be ways to set the files so you
don't have to see them even though they are there - when you read the
message you wouldn't see anything but the header. Then you could
uudecode it here and download it. Sounds too tricky though - too
confusing and problems setting it up. It would be secure against most
hackers though, by the confusion, if not by the rest of the security.
Encryption could make it absolutely secure but still more confusing.
Another way would be to leave the files in the normal areas but have the
special message areas with the encryption passwords. The files of course
would be encrypted and only those with access to the message areas could
decrypt the files. Perhaps this is the best way, at least it isn't too
confusing, and the special message area could help for those who get
confused. Actually all encrypted files should probably be left in a
special area so people don't waste their time downloading stuff they'll
never be able to use.
Is this clear enough for you to tell me what you think?
Doug