Hacker Chronicles 2/HACKER2.BIN/455.SF018095.TXT

Text File | 1993-02-23 | 17KB | 383 lines

SF-LOVERS Digest          Wednesday, 10 Feb 1993       Volume 18 : Issue 95

Today's Topics:

                   Miscellaneous - Conventions (8 msgs)

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Date: 6 Feb 93 09:07:22 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Brin McLaughlin)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Art Shows & Whatnot

Fandom owing people a living is absurd. There are probably less than a
hundred fans/pros who can make more than a thousand dollars at any given
convention, and in order to 'make a living', one would have to go to a
convention every weekend of the entire damned year, and make money that is
over and above the costs of their room, their table space/art flats, meals,
etc. I rarely see it. So to have somebody be 'tired' of people like this
strikes me as odd.

Fortunately, the only art show I was ever officially responsible for had a
lot of input from 1) artists and 2) people who've run them before. I
learned a lot this way, and it's probably the most effective way to learn,
is learn by doing.

If anybody else out there is sick and tired of fans who think fandom owes
them a living, please run an art show yourself, so you can see what's going
on from a more objective viewpoint.

Brin McLaughlin
[e-mail]

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Date: 5 Feb 93 20:45:37 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Russ Campbell )
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Norwescon Art Show snobbery

[e-mail] (L.A.Z. Smith) writes:
> I am getting awfully tired of people who think fandom owes them a living.

NOW I'M PISSED.  Statements like that are basically a blatant show of lack
of knowledge.  Among all the artists I know on the con circuit I know of
very few who make a living from fandom directly, almost all make much more
money in other markets.  And among that same crowd of artists (must be
numbering in the hundreds at least) I know of NONE that "think fandom owes
them a living".  I suggest you reconsider that opinion.  If you want some
evidence of what I say here then hang around an art show and talk to the
professional artists in attendance and see how many of them will answer yes
to "Do you think fandom owes you a living?"  I've taken a day to answer
this because when I saw it yesterday I was too offended to respond in a
reasonably civil manner.

> Personally, I'd like to see the entire present system of convention art
> shows and art auctions dumped in favor of something more like an art fair
> (or an art huckster room, if you will).  Let the artists hang their own
> stuff, sit by it all weekend, handle their own security, etc.  Then they
> can sell whatever they want to.

Amazingly enough here's a lucid beginning of an idea for a good experiment
following the openning statement.  Perhaps someone will try this somewhere.

> Really cons are putting an awful lot of time, effort, and staffing into
> running artshows for artists who don't appreciate them.

Then the cons you're going to or helping to run are doing something wrong.
The show I help run does indeed take a modicum of time and effort.
Staffing isn't a problem though.  Why?  Because no more than 4 people
handle everything related to the art show up to the day of setup.  At that
point the staff expands for the weekend and then contracts back again after
the con.  How is this possible?  Find an artist with some business sense
and let him/her run the show.  The show I work with is directed by a friend
of mine who is such a person and surrounds herself with other such persons.
The concom basically says here's the space you get this year and leaves us
alone.  When we need something we ask.  If the answer is yes then it's
taken care of in short order and we are again left on our own.  The only
two factors I can think of that can make running the show a real hassle are
tremendous size and interference from those who haven't a clue what they're
doing in the first place.

Staff?  The 4 people on year round staff are all artists themselves, people
who the show director knows she can give an assignment to and it will get
done.  The weekend of the con the staff expands to include a designated
mail in handling team and general help.  What are your attending artists
doing when they're not in panels?  They should be in the show helping out.
At the con about half of the added show staff is attending artists for us,
the other half composed mostly of collectors, agents, and occasionally a
general volunteer.

And so far no artist I know of hasn't appreciated the efforts of the staff
of our show.  Myself, I even do my best to show appreciation to the
directors of the shows I attend and mail to by including some "gratuity" to
them for their efforts.  Typically that's a package of Christmas cards or
other promotional item I've had made for such purposes.

Russ

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Date: 5 Feb 93 17:14:53 GMT
From: [e-mail] (SSB GLOVER)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Norwescon Art Show snobbery

L.A.Z. Smith ([e-mail]) wrote:
>Personally, I'd like to see the entire present system of convention art
>shows and art auctions dumped in favor of something more like an art fair
>(or an art huckster room, if you will).  Let the artists hang their own
>stuff, sit by it all weekend, handle their own security, etc.  Then they
>can sell whatever they want to.
>
>Really cons are putting an awful lot of time, effort, and staffing into
>running artshows for artists who don't appreciate them.

Hear, hear!

In Britain, the most cons get out of the art show is the 5-10% that goes to
the con charity (if there is one) from the *buyers* end... I really don't
know why we don't take a similar percentage from the seller...

We lost lots of Novacon programme time to the art show last year for
minimal gain - there are cynics who would say that suited Novacon fine...

Steve Glover

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Date: 6 Feb 93 00:40:20 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Danny Low)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Why not split the art into lots for auction?

Nancy Lebovitz writes:
>It would certainly be easier on the bidders if the art that was going to
>auction were divided into groups so that you didn't have to sit through
>the auction from the beginning in order not to miss the piece(s) you're
>interested in.

I have been at an art auction where the art to be auctioned off was listed
with an ESTIMATED AUCTION TIME. They were never more than 5 minutes off the
schedule. It was considered one of the more successful Westercon art shows.
This art show also closed down the art show aisle by aisle and announced
the order in advance. You could defend ALL last minute bids as a result.

Danny Low
HP CPCD
Silicon Valley
[e-mail]

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Date: 8 Feb 93 01:26:57 GMT
From: [e-mail] (L.A.Z. Smith)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Norwescon Art Show snobbery

[e-mail] (Russ Campbell ) writes:
>NOW I'M PISSED.  Statements like that are basically a blatant show of lack
>of knowledge.  Among all the artists I know on the con circuit I know of
>very few who make a living from fandom directly, almost all make much more
>money in other markets.  And among that same crowd of artists (must be
>numbering in the hundreds at least) I know of NONE that "think fandom owes
>them a living".  I suggest you reconsider that opinion.

In your previous posting, you complained that some conventions' art show
policies did not allow the artists to make enough money.  You can't have it
both ways.  If the artists' goal is to make a profit on their work, and
they can do so in other markets, but not at cons, then they should stop
bothering to enter their work in convention art shows.  If the goal is not
to make a profit, but to (say) show their work off to an appreciative
audience, then they should stop complaining that they can't make enough
money in these shows.

(I'll point out that originally, artwork sold in SF convention auctions was
DONATED.  This practice stopped when artists began selling only publication
rights to the magazines and publishers and keeping their originals, so the
publishers could no longer donate cover paintings, etc., to the cons and
fan charities.)

I am sympathetic to people who submit work to art shows in order to be able
to afford to attend the con, but I'll point out that many hucksters are in
a similar position, and THEY don't get nearly as much support from the
committee, and generally must pay a much higher proportion of what they
take in for the space they get.  And then there are those of us who neither
draw nor huckster, and we must pay all our own way ourselves.

>The show I help run does indeed take a modicum of time and effort.
>Staffing isn't a problem though.  Why?  Because no more than 4 people
>handle everything related to the art show up to the day of setup.  At that
>point the staff expands for the weekend and then contracts back again
>after the con.

Yes, but how many people are needed AT the con to set up hangings, hang the
show, hand out bid numbers, handle security, watch over the handbags and
things people must leave at the entry, take things down at the end of the
show, process those pieces going to auction, run the auction, serve as
runners and gofers, handle taking money and paying the artists, etc.?  At
the con, not in advance of it, is when most conventions have staffing
problems.  Sure, some artists volunteer, but many don't.

And having the art show takes up a lot of space, for both the show and the
auction, which in some cases means the convention must be held in a larger
and more expensive venue because of it, which means that the convention
membership as a whole subsidizes the art show.

LAZ Smith
[e-mail]

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Date: 9 Feb 93 14:52:41 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Jim Mann)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Norwescon Art Show snobbery

[e-mail] (Chris Croughton) writes:
>>NOW I'M PISSED.  Statements like that are basically a blatant show of
>>lack of knowledge.  Among all the artists I know on the con circuit I
>>know of very few who make a living from fandom directly, almost all make
>>much more money in other markets.  And among that same crowd of artists
>>(must be numbering in the hundreds at least) I know of NONE that "think
>>fandom owes them a living".
>
>Of course not.  But there seem to be several on the net who *do* feel that
>way (or it comes over like that, whether they meant it or not).
>
>And it's not (IMO) primarily the professional artists that are the problem
>anyway - it's many other fen who think that way (artists, fanzine
>producers, etc. - oh, not even a large minority, but the few who get a bad
>name).

I disagree. This is rarely a problem with the true, established pro
artists. I have never yet heard people like Michael Whelan and David Cherry
complain that they were owed a living.

My guess (based on analogies on the program side of the fence) is that it
is probably the neo-pros and little none pros and big name fans who make
the most noise.  In program, rarely do the well established pros complain
about what the con does or does not owe them. But J. Random
I-Sold-3-Stories-and-am-now-a-SFW-Member is far more likely to complain
that they want an extra freebie, or that they can't just pay in advance and
get their refund later (a worldcon policy), etc.

There is an amusing story about the old days of NESFA.  One member had just
sold his first novel (which got quite a bit of praise).  He decided at this
point that he could no longer help collate fanzines for the club, and began
to explain how a pro shouldn't have to do this. At about this point, the
door to the other room opens, Ben Bova looked out, and said that Isaac
(Asimov) said they were ready for the next group of pages.

Jim Mann
Stratus Computer
[e-mail]

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Date: 7 Feb 93 00:41:45 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Daniel Pawtowski)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Free Animation Film Festival Schedule

On the weekend of Febuary 20, 1993, the Animation Society of Virginia Tech,
VTAS, will present AnimeFest X.  This will be a 30-hour, weekend long FREE
Anime showing on the campus of Virginia Tech university.  All programs will
be shown on the giant projection TV in the Hancock Hall auditorium,
complete with 900 watts of sound.
  Virginia Tech is located in Blacksburg, Virginia, approx. 30 miles
southwest of Roanoke along I-81.

 One of the prime features of AnimeFest 10 will be the British claymation
film "Truckers", based on the Terry Pratchett novel of the same name (also
the author of the "Diskworld" series).  We are quite certain that this film
has never before been shown in the United States, so it promises to be
quite a premire!  Many of the other films are Japanese in origin, with
English subtitles.

The current schedule for AnimeFest X is as follows:

Saturday Feb 20, 1993

 9:00am Danger Mouse (E)
 9:30am Dragonball Movie(J)
11:00am Kiki's Delivery Service (S)
12:45pm Samurai Pizza Cats (E)
 1:00pm Lupin III: Fuma's Secret Plot (S*)
 1:30pm Appleseed (S)
 3:40pm Truckers (E)
 5:30pm Dirty Pair: Project Eden (S)
 7:00pm Fish Police (E)

 7:30pm DINNER - GO EAT AND CALL HOME!

 8:00pm Samurai Pizza Cats (E)
 8:30pm Ranma 1/2 Movie (S)
 9:30pm The Wind is Named Amnesia (S*)
11:15pm Women Warriors Effie & Jiri (S*)

Sunday Feb 21, 1993

Midnite Silent Mobius (S*)
 1:00am Super Natural Beast City (S)
 2:45am Mamono Hunter Yohko (S)
 3:30am Baoh (S*)
 4:15am City Hunter Movie (S*)
 6:00am Video Girl Ai #1-3(S*)
 7:30am Goku (S*)
 8:20am Aeon Flux (E)
 9:00am 3x3 Eyes #4 (S*)
 9:30am Assemble Insert (S)
10:30am SD Gundum (J)
11:00am Gundum 0083 #1-2 (S*)
   Noon Windaria, Legend of Famous Battle (S*)
 1:30pm Orange Road OVA (S)
 2:00pm Record of the Lodoss Wars #11-13 (S*)
 3:30pm Luna Varga (J)
 4:30pm Quantum Leap (**) OR Legend of Arslan (S*)

Key:
(J) Japanese
(E) English
(S) Japanese with English subtitles.
(S*) Japanese, probably with English subtitles.  More data will
     be posted when available.
(**) This is the Quantum Leap episode where Sam becomes a toon.  It's being
     done by Katsuhiro Otomo (Akira).  If we can show this, we will.

For more information, send email to [e-mail], or snailmail to
VTAS, P.O. Box 10143, Blacksburg, VA, 24062-0413, or log on to the VTCOSY
conferencing BBS (telent to vtcbx.cc.vt.edu to reach the VT CBX network,
then type CALL VTCOSY).  A complete schedule for AnimeFest X will be posted
when available.

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Date: 8 Feb 93 01:32:04 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Gallifrey One Goes Forth Info

It's just right around the corner.....

GALLIFREY ONE GOES FOURTH
The Fourth Annual Los Angeles "Doctor Who" and British SF Convention

February 26-28, 1993, at the Burbank Airport Hilton, Burbank, CA
(in suburban Los Angeles!)

Guests include:

  * Nicola Bryant (Peri Brown of "Doctor Who")
  * Frazer Hines (Jamie MacCrimmon of "Doctor Who", pending final
       negotiation)
  * John Levene (Benton of "Doctor Who")
  * J.M. Dillard (Star Trek & SF novelist)
  * David Gerrold (popular SF novelist, hosting our annual AIDS Project
     Los Angeles Charity Auction)
  * Jean-Marc L'Officier ("Doctor Who Programme Guide" author)
  * Larry Stewart (Toastmaster)
  * Julie Ann Sczesny (comic artist/writer)
  * Mel Gilden (popular Trek and SF writer)
  * J. Michael Straczynski (Babylon 5 creator/writer)

Plus... at least six more in the works, which will be announced shortly!

Taking place at the convention: a Dealers' Room, Art Show, Video Room
(almost 24 hours a day!), Saturday Cabaret and Reception, Sunday High Tea,
"The Coffee House" filking party hosted by John Levene & Linda Harpe, the
Leisure Hive Improv, Trivia Squares, our annual "Gallifrey Tonight" talk
show on Friday evening, a look at the Red Dwarf American Pilot and some
special surprises, plus our APLA Benefit Auction.

For more information, call 818-752-8378 or write to
Gallifrey Conventions
P.O. Box 3021
North Hollywood, CA 91609.

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End of SF-LOVERS Digest
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