Hacker Chronicles 2/HACKER2.BIN/459.SF018098.TXT

Text File | 1993-02-23 | 19KB | 421 lines

SF-LOVERS Digest            Friday, 12 Feb 1993        Volume 18 : Issue 98

Today's Topics:

              Books - Jones & Kim Stanley Robinson (6 msgs) &
                      Simmons (2 msgs) & Tepper &
                      Walter Jon Williams & Math-Fiction (4 msgs)

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Date: 9 Feb 93 18:10:47 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Sarah E. Smith)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Diana Wynne Jones

>Diana Wynne Jones is certainly becoming a must buy these days.

Does anyone know if she's going to be coming out with anything new anytime
soon?

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Date: 10 Feb 93 12:54:43 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Patrick Nielsen-Hayden)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Red Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson

Anent the remarks about wanting a Martian atlas to go along with reading
RED MARS: the (British) edition I read had a very useful two-page map of
Mars marking the locations of all the major settlements in the story.  Did
Bantam omit this from the American edition?

Incidentally, another recent novel that explores the whole question of
"environmentalism" as it applies to extraterrestrial "environments" hostile
to human life is Charles Sheffield's COLD AS ICE.

Patrick Nielsen Hayden
senior editor
Tor Books
[e-mail]

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Date: 10 Feb 93 19:07:26 GMT
From: [e-mail] (no label)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Red Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson

[e-mail] (Jim Mann) writes:
>[e-mail] (Patrick Nielsen-Hayden) writes:
>>Anent the remarks about wanting a Martian atlas to go along with reading
>>RED MARS: the (British) edition I read had a very useful two-page map of
>>Mars marking the locations of all the major settlements in the story.
>>Did Bantam omit this from the American edition?
>
>It was included in the Bantam trade paperback.

Am I just incredibly unobservant, or did the Bantam Hardcover not include
this map?  Did I just miss it?  The only diagram I recall of any kind was
Michel's personality charts.

Michael L. Medlin
[e-mail]

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Date: 10 Feb 93 00:01:12 GMT
From: [e-mail] (no label)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Red Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson

[e-mail] (cb52) writes:
> ***Major Spoiler***
>     [Disclaimer: The way a book's plot unfolds, what occurs in a book, or
>a book's ending, is entirely the buisness of the author and no one else.
>If people don't like it tough luck!  On the other hand, the reader has the
>right to react to a plot or ending, here's mine.]  My biggest
>dissatisfaction with the book was the ending.  The entire planet is
>practically destroyed, thousands of colonists die, and the First Hundred
>huddle together to start all over again.  I assume the next book in this
>trilogy will start with the surviving First Hundred trying to reconstruct
>Mars.  I would have liked to see generational change and development of
>the planet, both enviromentally (terraforming and domed cities) and
>socially (state building, how different cultures interact and become
>interdepedent on a new planet).  Instead, all the achievements of the
>colonists are destroyed and we start from square one.  How disappointing!
>(Actually, the terraformers will be pleased that the introduction of so
>much water on the surface will greatly accelerate their plans for changing
>Mars' atmosphere for human habitation, thus the next book Green Mars).

Although the ending did not bother me (perhaps because the progression to
that point flowed so perfectly?) I can see your concerns.  Your presumption
regarding the path of the continuing series is a valid one, and it could
very well be the exact path that Stan follows.  However, it might not
continue in that way at all, and even if it does we will surely see the
Martian societies that have nothing to do with the first hundred.  Much of
your complaint about the ending of this book seems to stem from the options
it leaves for the remaining books.  I for one am going to wait and see what
Robinson does with these options.

>Finally, I found it hard to really "get into" the descriptions of Mars
>because I am fairly unfamiliar with its geography. For those who haven't
>read the book yet, familiarizing yourself with Mars beforehand would
>increase your enjoyment of the book.  Does anyone have any good
>suggestions about books or other sources to do so?

A "current" Martian atlas would be absolutely *incredible* as a companion
to the series.  I would also like to know if one exists.  The description
was generally good enough for me to visualize certain areas, but an atlas
would give more of a sense of scope and scale.  If I find one, I will
immediately pick up _RM_ and re-read it from page one.

Michael L. Medlin
[e-mail]

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Date: 10 Feb 93 17:30:16 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Simon Marchant)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Red Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson

[e-mail] (Patrick Nielsen-Hayden) writes:
>Anent the remarks about wanting a Martian atlas to go along with reading
>RED MARS: the (British) edition I read had a very useful two-page map of
>Mars marking the locations of all the major settlements in the story.  Did
>Bantam omit this from the American edition?

Actually, Stan talked about this at the Other Change of Hobbit on Sunday.
He didn't really like the fake albedo airbrushing that was done on the
British edition.  And from the American edition (which has the map sans
airbrushing) it is quite clear that the names on the map, and the map
itself are mirror images - e.g. Olympus Mons is on one page of the map but
the name "Olympus Mons" is in the mirror image position on the other page.
Useful map?  Maybe.

Simon

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Date: 10 Feb 93 20:40:30 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Jim Kasprzak)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Travelers' Guide to Mars (was Re: Red Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson)

 The canonical map of Mars is the 1973 NASA map which was compiled from the
Mariner photographs. It can be ordered directly from the U.S. Geological
Survey, or from other publishers (my copy was ordered through _Astronomy_
magazine). You might also want to check out a book or two on planetary
geology, which usually have a chapter or two devoted to Mars. I have a few
at home; I'll try to remember to write down titles and authors and post
them here.

Jim Kasprzak
RPI
Troy, NY, USA
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

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Date: 10 Feb 93 23:09:37 GMT
From: [e-mail] (John Redford)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Red Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson

[e-mail] (cb52) writes:
>The most compelling arguement made by Anne (a Red) is "What if" some life
>form undetected by the colonists exits on Mars and terraforming would
>destroy these indigenous life-forms.  Her other arguments boil down to
>preserving the present atmosphere of Mars for its own sake.  I wish the
>author had spent more time building up the arguement for the later.

I think Robinson did spend some time building up the argument for
preserving Mars for its sake.  He did it in the long, lyrical passages
describing the Martian landscape.  These are some of my favorite parts of
the book.  The landscape is so beautiful and so alien that you long to see
it in person.  It's quite an achievement, and I think it's only possible
now that we know something about the real Mars.

As you can tell, I sided with the Reds in the book.  I think "habitable" is
a matter of degree.  The fact that people could live permanently on Mars
meant that it was habitable by definition.  With advancing technology, more
and more places become habitable and even pleasant.  It used to be that you
had to be pretty tough to climb the Rockies in winter, and now retirees go
skiing there on vacation.  The mountains are just as high, and it gets just
as much snow, but mid-20C technology makes it accessible to anyone.
Mid-21C technology will make Mars just as accessible.

I have never read a more brilliant and engaging SF novel on colonization.
If you don't believe me, check out the blurb from Arthur C. Clarke on the
cover.  Robinson has been a promising writer for quite a while, and now
he's burst into the lead of the field.  Not only is it prime SF, it engages
many of the important questions of our time, such as environmentalism,
democracy and the market, and surviving cultural diversity.  It's out in
trade paperback.  Buy it before it sweeps all the awards.

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Date: 10 Feb 93 18:45:41 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Ramez Naam)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Dan Simmons' Hyperion

[e-mail] (Amy Rebecca Ewing) writes:
>I recently just finished the Hyperion series and all I can say is, "Wow!"
>I was very impressed with the incredibly intricate and diverse plotlines.
>What about some of Simmons' other works? How do they fare? I've seen a
>collection of short stories but the rest of his stuff seems to be more
>horror oriented (I have no problem with that.)

I haven't read a Simmons book that I didn't like so far (and I've read all
of them except "Children of the Night"), but I've never read one that
compared to Hyperion, either.  I'd recommend reading Carrion Comfort next,
and then The Hollow Man and Summer of Night.  Phases of Gravity and Song of
Kali can wait.

Ramez Naam
[e-mail]

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Date: 10 Feb 93 22:26:33 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Sarah E. Smith)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Dan Simmons' Hyperion

[e-mail] (Amy Rebecca Ewing) says:
>I recently just finished the Hyperion series and all I can say is, "Wow!"
>I was very impressed with the incredibly intricate and diverse plotlines.
>What about some of Simmons' other works? How do they fare? I've seen a
>collection of short stories but the rest of his stuff seems to be more
>horror oriented (I have no problem with that.)

I have read _Summer of Fear_ and recommend it, but not wholeheartedly.  It
is a good book, along the lines of _IT_, but has less convincing characters
(IMHO) and a couple holes in the plot.  But, all in all, it's a pretty good
read.  I'm still trying to get my hands on his new one.

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Date: 11 Feb 93 03:14:49 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Laura Doyle)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Sheri Tepper

I thought Tepper's books are great.  There was some confusion about what
exactly she's written so I included a list at the bottom.  BEAUTY was
fantastic and I highly recommend it to anyone.  Very interesting idea, in
that she weaves fairy tale, allegory into a great novel.  I was turned off
Tepper for a long time because of the cover on BEAUTY, which is pink...
bright pink.  But ignore the cover; the book is one of her best.
   Yes, Sideshow is the 3rd in a series of books.  They can each be read
individually, because although they take place in the same universe, the
connection in the stories is pretty tenuous.  If you read all three you get
a good idea of the universe and Tepper's particular "future history" of the
human race.  Also, it seemed to me that AFTER LONG SILENCE could have also
been in the same universe.  Does any other Tepper readers have any
comments?
   I think there's a big difference in her slimmer science fiction novels
and the style of her more recent fiction, which seems intended to be much
more serious.  Also, in response to another comment, I *do* classify Tepper
as a feminist sci-fi writer, although it is not the primary element in each
of her books.  For instance, GRASS seemed much more like a sci-fi suspense,
and she didn't really deal much with male-female relationships (or with
ecological disaster, despite the blurb on the cover).
   GATE TO WOMEN'S COUNTRY was obviously feminist, but I think in the rest
of her novels feminism is merely one element.  The place of religion in
society is a larger element in her work than feminism, I think.

       Marianne, the Magus and the Manticore
       Marianne, The Madame and the Momentary Gods
       Marianne, the Matchbox and the Malachite Mouse
  True Game Series:  King's Blood Four
                     Necromancer Nine
                     Wizard's Eleven
                     The Song of Mavin Manyshaped
                     The Flight of Mavin Manyshaped
                     The Search of Mavin Manyshaped
       Jinian Footseer
       Dervish Daughter
       Jinian Star-Eye
  The Awakeners: South Shore
                 North Shore
       Blood Heritage
       The Bones
       The Revenants
      Grass
      Raising the Stones
      Sideshow
       After Long Silence
       The Gate to Women's Country
       Beauty

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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 14:38 EST
From: [e-mail] (Evelyn C Leeper [phone])
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: ARISTOI by Walter Jon Williams

                      ARISTOI by Walter Jon Williams
                  Tor, 1992, ISBN 0-312-85172-3, $22.95.
                     A book review by Evelyn C. Leeper

   The Aristoi are the technocrats of Earth-2 (Earth-1 having been
destroyed, presumably before society realized that the rulers should be
scientists).  With the help of nanotechnology, they have basically
unlimited power.  Unfortunately for the reader, they seem to use a lot of
this power to throw fancy parties.  It's sort of like "Lifestyles of the
Rich and Famous," but with nanotechnology.

   This is not to say there aren't some good ideas in ARISTOI.  The problem
is that there is too much stuff around them.  It took almost half of the
book to get to some of the ideas I found most interesting: that of the
responsibility of a creator to the created, that of free will, the
drawbacks of freedom over slavery, and so on.  And getting to that point
was not easy.  For some books you need a dictionary by your side; for this
you need a GREEK dictionary.

   Towards the middle of the book we leave the neo-Greek society that
Williams has drawn (one friend thought it seemed more Oriental, but I kept
feeling as if I had fallen into a Hellenic SCA creation) and enter a sort
of Euro-feudal society.  It is here, in this microcosm, that the conflict
begun on the macrocosm is engaged.  Layers within layers, here as in so
many other areas of the novel: multiple levels of personality, multiple
levels of reality, multiple levels of Life.  (I was reminded of this
watching a recent STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION episode!)

   ARISTOI is certainly a thought-provoking novel, but a bit tough-going in
parts.  Williams uses some stylistic techniques which, while serving a
useful purpose, are often more distraction than guide.  I personally would
have preferred a different focus, but I can't say this is a bad novel or
not worth reading.  But you should know what you're getting into.

Evelyn C. Leeper
[phone]
[e-mail]

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Date: 8 Feb 93 06:24:23 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Alan Ramaley)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: math-fi?

Hi folks.  Among my top two regrets (never mind the first) is that I didn't
buy a collection of stories called 'Math-Fi' when I saw it in 1987.  It
sounded really interesting.

So here's my real question.  I can accept that I'll never find the book,
even though I just spent almost all of today in bookstores looking.  What I
would like to do is find some authors and books that are "math-fi".  I'm
not even sure what exactly "math-fi" means, but it sounds sexy.  I've heard
Rudy Rucker is in this groove.  Any suggestions (especially recent,
paperback books)?  Thanks in advance.

Alan Aitken Ramaley
POB 9217
Stanford CA 94309

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Date: 8 Feb 93 10:35:05 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Jason F Ralph)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: math-fi?

The only suggestion that I can think of is 'Flatland' by someone whose name
eludes me for the moment but I do know that it is published by Dover. It is
concerned with the adventures is a two-D world and is written by a
geometer, so it has to fairly 'realistic'...

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Date: 8 Feb 93 14:56:59 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Jim Kasprzak)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: math-fi?

 Well, one story that comes to mind immediately is Stanley G. Weinbaum's
"The Edge of Infinity". It's a gimmick story, and wouldn't be mistaken for
Great Litersture, but it's entertaining and certainly qualifies as
"math-fi".

 I know that I've read more in this vein, but can't remember any specifics
offhand. Isaac Asimov must have written a few shorts of this nature.

Jim Kasprzak
RPI
Troy, NY, USA
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

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Date: 8 Feb 93 19:20:28 GMT
From: [e-mail] (David Barrington)
Reply-to: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: math-fi?

[e-mail] (Alexander Szewczak) writes:
>Excuse me for shooting a little low, but Clifton Fadiman (I think) edited
>a couple of books of math-related short SF. The title of one was "The
>Mathematical Magpi"; that's a Greek pi on the end, you understand. Lots of
>puzzle and gadget stories, including "A Feeling of Power" (Asimov), "And
>He Built A Crooked House" (Heinlein), and "The Nine Billion Names of God"
>(Clarke).

"Magpie" was the second such collection, released sometime in the 70's.
The first was "Fantasia Mathematica", circa 1960, also edited by Fadiman.
I'm pretty sure "Subway Named Moebius" and "Crooked House" were in the
first.  These two collections are exactly what you're looking for.

Dave MB

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End of SF-LOVERS Digest
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