Day 018 - 26 Jul 94 - Page 22

     
     1   Q.   Is this a particular risk with small birds?
              A.  Yes.
     2
         Q.   Is another feature of the efficiency of the stunning bath
     3        the amount of current that goes through it?
              A.  Yes.
     4
         Q.   Do some people use a current which gives the bird a
     5        cardiac arrest?
              A.  Yes.
     6
         Q.   Not so, however, I understand at Sun Valley?
     7        A.  Yes.
 
     8   Q.   Is this an area where you believe, not as a witness for
              the McDonald's but as an animal welfarist, that Sun Valley
     9        ought to be thinking about that question?
              A.  Yes, I believe there are two alternatives and this, in
    10        fact, is mentioned in the code of practice of the Ministry
              of Agriculture.  When the birds are stunned one option is
         to induce a cardiac arrest at stunning, which you
              mentioned; the other option, if you are not inducing a
    12        cardiac arrest, is immediately after stunning to make sure
              you bleed the animal out by deflecting blood away from the
    13        brain.  In practice, that means you should do a ventral
              neck cut which cuts both carotid arteries.  Those are the
    14        two options that I think would make for an ideal stunning
              situation using this system.
    15
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Is the difference between stunning and
    16        cardiac arrest simply a matter of the strength of the
              electric shock?
    17        A.  Yes.
 
    18   MR. RAMPTON:  Can I ask you a technical scientific ---?
              A.  Sorry, can I add to that?  Also some electrical wave
    19        forms will never induce a cardiac arrest, so even with a
              high strength of current they will not.
    20
         Q.   Sometimes the birds can get an electric shock before they
         are actually stunned; is that right?
              A.  Yes.
    22
         Q.   Did you observe that happening at Sun Valley?
    23        A.  Yes, I did.
 
    24   Q.   In what percentage of the birds that you examined?
              A.  I would say it is difficult to give an accurate
    25        estimate on this.  As far as I could tell, it was 13.5 per
              cent, but this is open to a more accurate estimate. 
    26 
         Q.   For that purpose you examined, I think, 200 birds? 
    27        A.  Yes.
 
    28   Q.   Was it of that 200 birds that you thought one per cent
              actually missed the water in the stun bath completely?
    29        A.  I could not say whether it is one per cent of
              the  ----
    30
         Q.   That is what I was wondering?