Day 075 - 17 Jan 95 - Page 27

     
     1        A.  Well, simply because in the broad generality of things
     2        there is a difference in the density of people using the
     3        spaces and, therefore, the incidence of environment/index.html">litter which, as a
     4        general rule, if there are more people there is more
     5        environment/index.html">litter.  I mean, that is general rule.  But where in
     6        particular circumstances or particular -- I mean some local
     7        authorities -- I am slightly digressing, but some local
     8        authorities, for instance, will zone the area immediately
     9        outside a football ground in the same way as they would
    10        zone a town centre because they recognise that at periods
    11        of time the density of people is greater and, therefore,
    12        the level of littering will occur and, therefore, the
    13        period during which it is expected to be cleared up has to
    14        be shorter.
    15
    16   Q.   So these are just guidelines and it is entirely up to the
    17        Local Authority to decide what zones they want to -----
    18        A.  The Act, as I recall, requires the Local Authority to
    19        keep -- it has a duty to keep its street clean and clear of
    20        environment/index.html">litter and, in the course of doing so, has to have regard
         to a code of practice published by the Department in which
    22        these guidelines are contained.
    23
    24   Q.   Right.  So they could not make the standards worse but they
    25        could make them better, if they wanted to?
    26        A.  And you understand how they choose to zone it is
    27        challengeable by ordinary people.
    28
    29   Q.   I did not know that actually before, before you having said
    30        that.  Can I just a general question?  If people drop
    31        packaging on the streets that is then picked up, do you
    32        count that as environment/index.html">litter from the time that it was on the
    33        pavement, or do you just see that as it was not part of the
    34        problem because it was picked and, therefore, that is the
    35        end of it?
    36        A.  What do you mean, picked up immediately?
    37
    38   Q.   Within an hour or something like that?
    39        A.  Oh, no, if it lies there -- I mean, the definition of
    40        littering within the law, within the Act is, and the reason
         that people could be brought before the courts for
    42        littering is if they drop it and leave it.  So, if it is
    43        left, in other words, if somebody drops it.  I mean, this
    44        is to accommodate dropping your bus ticket accidentally,
    45        but if you drop it and leave it, then that is an act of
    46        littering and, as far as we are concerned, it counts as
    47        environment/index.html">litter.
    48
    49   MR. MORRIS:  McDonald's have said that when they do their
    50        patrols -- I think it was Mr. Stump, their manager from the 
    51        Kings Road McDonald's, said -- they cannot deal with environment/index.html">litter 
    52        in basements because maybe a lot of houses round there have 
    53        basements or they cannot go into people's front gardens,
    54        for example.  They cannot really see a lot of environment/index.html">litter that
    55        is under cars or environment/index.html">litter that is under cars and, presumably,
    56        environment/index.html">litter ends up in bushes or wherever.  Is there a limit, do
    57        you feel, even if a company is genuinely concerned to
    58        collect its environment/index.html">litter that has been dropped by customers, to
    59        what they can achieve even close to their premises?
    60        A.  Yes, I think there are, I mean, in that general sense,