Day 080 - 30 Jan 95 - Page 16

     
     1   Q.   Can I go back a bit?  When you said that the inspectors
     2        would test the temperature of the meat, if a lorry happened
     3        to be loading as they were leaving, are there any
     4        circumstances in which they would fail the meat?
     5        A.  Yes, if the meat was excessively over temperature, I am
     6        sure they would.
     7
     8   Q.   What temperature would that be?
     9        A.  It is an arbitrary judgment.  If I was doing an
    10        inspection and I saw meat at 10 degrees, I would reject the
    11        load.  If I saw meat at 4.1 or five degrees, I would not
    12        reject the load providing I knew that the refrigeration
    13        unit on the truck was efficient and within a matter of a
    14        short time that meat would be back down.  I mean, what we
    15        are trying to do is inhibit bacterial growth and anything
    16        lower than 10 bugs are not going to grow.
    17
    18   Q.   So you would accept anything less than 10, would you?
    19        A.  No.  I did not say that.  I said I would reject it at
    20        10.  I said I would probably pass it 4.1 to five.  That is
         what I said.
    22
    23   Q.   So you would reject anything over five?
    24        A.  It depends on the -- I am sorry, you are not going to
    25        get me to be adamant on temperatures on bacteriology and
    26        bacteria growth.  The reason is that into my judgment would
    27        be the condition of the meat, the quality of the meat, and
    28        all the facts that affect whether the meat was high
    29        standard meat or medium standard meat.
    30
    31   Q.   I think we have finished with that file.
    32
    33   MR. MORRIS:  Just a few more bits and pieces on microbiology.
    34        Your standard of 10 million as unsatisfactory; in your 1991
    35        microbiological guidelines, five million was
    36        unsatisfactory.  Do you know when it went up to 10 million
    37        and why?
    38        A.  I think you have two different things there.  You have
    39        got McDonald's specification, and McKey's meat
    40        specification is tighter; to get 10 million in the
         McDonald's specification, our meat specification is
    42        tighter.  One is five million and one is 10 million.  You
    43        have one written to the power and you have one written in
    44        straight figures.
    45
    46   Q.   The one which you have put in your statement ---
    47        A.  That is the meat specification.
    48
    49   Q.   -- that is the one which you have said a number of times is
    50        the specification for your testing for "unsatisfactory". 
    51        It quotes in your statement:  "Unsatisfactory which means 
    52        there is more then 10 million per gramme"? 
    53        A.  Yes.
    54
    55   Q.   In the McKey Food Service Limited microbiological
    56        guidelines -- I mean, if we look at, for example -- I am
    57        sorry, I am going to refer you to a file; it is pink VIII.
    58        A.  There are two; VIII B and VIII.
    59
    60   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just simple VIII, please, Mr. Walker.