Day 080 - 30 Jan 95 - Page 17

     
     1
     2   MR. MORRIS:  On page 39, for example?
     3        A.  Of section 1?
     4
     5   Q.   It is internal page 39.
     6
     7   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  B3.
     8
     9   MR. MORRIS:  Yes.  These are your microbiological guidelines,
    10        yes, in your testing?
    11        A.  That -- yes.
    12
    13   Q.   Then if you look on page 39 "unacceptable" is greater than
    14        five million total viable count, TVC?
    15        A.  Yes.
    16
    17   Q.   So it has gone up since then?
    18        A.  No, it has not.  No, it has not.
    19
    20   Q.   It is now 10 million and then it was five million?
         A.  What are you comparing?
    22
    23   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  We are comparing with something in your
    24        statement.  I think, perhaps, you had better look at it.
    25        Yellow No. IX, please, Mr. Walker, tab 9, about two-thirds
    26        of the way through page 201.
    27
    28   MR. MORRIS:  Paragraph 17 in your statement which has been
    29        brought up a number of times -----
    30
    31   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What I suggest is you read the whole of 17,
    32        including 18, which I drew your attention to on Friday,
    33        particularly 17, Mr. Walker, please.  Then if you read the
    34        first three paragraphs on page 38 in the other bundle, B3,
    35        divider 3, the microbiological guidelines, on the face of
    36        it there appears to be a contradiction; five times 10 to
    37        the power of six is five million and, leaving aside the 75
    38        per cent and 25 per cent and league tables and any
    39        consideration of that, it says:  "Unsatisfactory is TVC
    40        greater than five million" at the end of the next short
         paragraph:  "No result should exceed five million per
    42        gramme".
    43        A.  Sir, without speaking to the technical people, what
    44        I think we have here is a meat specification which I know
    45        is tighter than the McDonald's specification for
    46        manufacturing beef burgers.  So, you have two different
    47        standards here, and they are crossed over.  I think,
    48        likewise, if you look at the microbiological guidelines
    49        here which is the way I read this, this is a raw materials
    50        spec., and you look at it in comparison with a standard 
    51        McDonald's spec., that microbiological guideline will be 
    52        tighter.  I know in speaking to my people that they did 
    53        tighten up the meat -- to make sure you are within the
    54        McDonald's spec. they set a higher spec. on the meat.
    55
    56   MR. MORRIS:  So the five million specification in this document,
    57        page 38, is a tightening up from the previous specification
    58        which was the McDonald's one of 10 million?
    59        A.  Yes, not the -- it is not a tightening up.  The fellow
    60        concerned who set these standards, my Group Technical