Day 081 - 31 Jan 95 - Page 10

     
     1   Q.   So, in effect, the colony will be diluted; is that right?
     2        A.  Yes.
     3
     4   Q.   Is that better or worse for human health?
     5        A.  Well, it could be better.  It is difficult to say that
     6        it would be, but it could be better.
     7
     8   Q.   What I think his Lordship may want to know, if you can tell
     9        us, Professor Jackson, is whether it is known at what sort
    10        of numbers colonies of the different organisms become
    11        hazardous to human health?
    12        A.  The infective dose is known for most of the organisms,
    13        yes.
    14
    15   Q.   What sort of size of colony are we talking about?
    16        A.  I do not know the actual figures off the top of my
    17        head, but we are talking -- in those particular organisms
    18        you mentioned earlier we are talking about large numbers.
    19
    20   Q.   Is there a value, so far as human safety is concerned, food
         safety, in taking samples of total viable colony counts of
    22        all organisms?
    23        A.  Yes, it indicates the level of contamination.
    24
    25   Q.   Can I ask you to reach behind you to those shelves and
    26        extract volume VIII of the pink ones?  It is called
    27        "Rearing and Slaughter".
    28
    29   MS. STEEL:   IX is "Rearing and Slaughter".
    30
    31   MR. RAMPTON:  I am sorry, it is my fault, it must be food
    32        poisoning.  Turn please to tab 3 which I hope you will find
    33         -- have you found it?
    34        A.  Yes.
    35
    36   Q.   You can put Mr. North's statement on one side now, if you
    37        wish, as far as I am concerned.  Is it a document headed
    38        "Microbiological Guidelines"?
    39        A.  Yes.
    40
    Q.   Is it a McKey document?
    42        A.  Yes.
    43
    44   Q.   Were you in court for some of the time, at any rate, when
    45        Mr. Walker was giving evidence?
    46        A.  Yes.
    47
    48   Q.   You will see there that McKey have set out in the first
    49        part of the document a standard or guideline for total
    50        colony counts or you sometimes you call them TVCs? 
    51        A.  Yes. 
    52 
    53   Q.   Total viable count:  "Satisfactory", "passable",
    54        "unsatisfactory" and then figures are given for each
    55        standard.  Can I ask you this, this is raw, uncooked
    56        meat  ---
    57        A.  Yes.
    58
    59   Q.   -- that we are dealing with here?  Do you have with you a
    60        table from the Public Health Laboratory Service