Day 081 - 31 Jan 95 - Page 09

     
     1        whether he had made a mistake in that.
     2
     3   Q.   Why do you say that?
     4        A.  Because that seems contrary to what we would expect.
     5        An inverse correlation between high visual standards and
     6        microbiological standards is contrary to what most people
     7        would expect.
     8
     9   Q.   I suppose it may happen that something which looks clean
    10        may on microbiological examination turn out not to be so?
    11        A.  Certainly, yes.
    12
    13   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No doubt we will find out, but the words he
    14        uses are "can be" which I have so far interpreted as
    15        meaning "it is possible that", and it does happen that the
    16        microbiological standard may be one way whereas the visual
    17        standards are the other.  Mr. North, so far as I can read
    18        it, does not express a view as to the extent to which that
    19        happens in the paragraph?
    20        A.  It just his wording, "the inverse correlation", sir.
         He is implying that if a premises is dirty it will be
    22        microbiologically clean, and that one is necessarily
    23        correlated with the other which I do not accept.
    24
    25   Q.   You see significance in the word "correlation".
    26
    27   MR. RAMPTON:  Do you see, as a matter of generality, Professor
    28        Jackson, a correlation between what one might call visual
    29        or surface hygiene and microbiological hygiene?
    30        A.  Yes, I would say that there was generally a
    31        relationship between a visually clean premise and a
    32        microbiologically clean.
    33
    34   Q.   What is that relationship, is it an inverse relationship or
    35        a positive -----
    36        A.  No, a direct relationship.
    37
    38   Q.   I am not going to read them out, but can I ask you to
    39        remind yourself of paragraphs -- miss out paragraph 15 but
    40        otherwise read paragraph 14, and then, if you will,
         paragraphs 16 to 19 on the third page of this statement.
    42        Then please tell me when you have done that.
    43        A.  Yes, I have read that.
    44
    45   Q.   If I take two pieces of raw meat -- assume that the pink
    46        one has some contamination on it, it does not matter what
    47        organism, and the yellow one has not -- and I put them
    48        together, is there a possibility or a probability or
    49        whatever that some of the organisms, bacteria, from the
    50        pink will pass on to the yellow? 
    51        A.  Yes. 
    52 
    53   Q.   Does that have an implication for the risk to human health
    54        or not?
    55        A.  Well, the total numbers of organisms will still be the
    56        same but contained within a larger quantity.
    57
    58   Q.   Will be, sorry?
    59        A.  Contained within a larger quantity.
    60