Day 147 - 04 Jul 95 - Page 10

     
     1        the judge very often, particularly if one or both parties
     2        requests it, actually gives his ruling in public.
     3
     4        But do you want to say anything on whether these matters --
     5        the question of the transcript is not even an application
     6        at the moment -- but whether the other matters in relation
     7        to things like discovery and further and better particulars
     8        are interlocutory matters or not; because the chain of
     9        thought from that is, if they are interlocutory matters,
    10        the note says they are normally held in chambers.  But I am
    11        minded to agree with Mr. Rampton that the fact that they
    12        are normally held in chambers does not mean to say you must
    13        hear them in chambers.
    14
    15   MS. STEEL:  I think, maybe to save time, since the only matter
    16        that now appears to be in argument is whether the argument
    17        about transcripts should be heard in open court, maybe we
    18        should just argue about that, rather than wasting
    19        time -----
    20
    MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Argue about that, but about the others
    22        because, quite apart from the genuine applications which
    23        Mr. Rampton and Mr. Atkinson made yesterday, you are going
    24        to make some applications, and we have to decide whether
    25        I should hear those in chambers or in open court.
    26
    27   MS. STEEL:  Obviously, as far as any arguments go, we would
    28        invite you to hear them in open court, except where there
    29        are extremely rare circumstances where there is something
    30        that might, as the White Book says, defeat the ends of
    31        justice if it was heard in open court.
    32
    33   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Consult your adviser, if you wish.  But do
    34        you want to say anything about whether the proceedings are
    35        interlocutory?
    36
    37   MS. STEEL:   I think -----
    38
    39   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  They look pretty interlocutory on the rule,
    40        to me, I have to say at the moment, but I am giving you the
         opportunity to put forward an argument to the contrary.
    42
    43   MS. STEEL:  I think we would want to do further investigation
    44        and look into it further if we are going to have an
    45        argument on that, but perhaps it is not necessary at the
    46        moment.
    47
    48   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Do you want to turn and talk to your McKenzie
    49        Friend -- if he does not mind me calling him such?
    50 
    51   MS. STEEL:  As the matter is going to go into open court, we do 
    52        not want to say anything more at this stage. 
    53
    54   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  You are assuming I am going into open court.
    55
    56   MS. STEEL:  I thought everyone was in agreement, apart from the
    57        on transcripts.
    58
    59   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What I will say (and, if need be, I will give
    60        my reasons as part of my ruling in due course) is that so