Day 201 - 15 Dec 95 - Page 05
1 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes. If you have only just received the
2 papers, I am not going to rule on it today. But what
3 occurs to me is whether you do not want to plead not just
4 who was cited, but, if you do have any information -- and
5 it may be that you do not have here, that all you have is
6 numbers who were actually cited, not actually convictions.
7
8 MR. MORRIS: My understanding is that a citation is, in itself,
9 the important issue. Whether the violation leads to a
10 prosecution or whatever is a secondary matter,
11 because -----
12
13 MR. JUSTICE BELL: What you may argue is that they do not cite
14 without some good cause, and then, very often, they do not
15 pursue it to court to get a conviction because the matter
16 is sorted out one may or another. That may be a matter for
17 argument in due course one way or the other, what
18 conclusion I am to draw from that. But all I need to
19 ascertain for my own peace of mind is that you are not here
20 seeking to allege expressly more than citation; you may say
21 that is tantamount to a conviction, but you are using the
22 word "cited" advisedly.
23
24 MR. MORRIS: I am using the word based on the information in
25 front of me, whereas in the previous pleadings on this
26 issue I just put down what knowledge we had.
27
28 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I will make a note and come back to it when
29 Mr. Rampton has had time to consider it.
30
31 MR. MORRIS: It may be thought to be a sensible course to put
32 Mr. Stein's testimony behind his statement.
33
34 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I put the notice to admit in the
35 correspondence for the moment. I will put the transcript
36 of the Congress Committee (which I assume is what it is, or
37 something similar) behind Mr. Stein for the moment.
38
39 MR. MORRIS: The next one that is related to the reamended
40 defence is the interrogatories regarding Brazilian beef.
41 We were waiting to see if we were going to get discovery of
42 the amended defence. Then we have a statement of
43 Jose Morganti, a Civil Evidence Act statement, from the
44 Plaintiffs.
45
46 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Shall I read the interrogatories ---
47
48 MR. MORRIS: Please.
49
50 MR. JUSTICE BELL: -- so I can see what they are? (Pause) Now,
51 these interrogatories have only been served today?
52
53 MR. MORRIS: Yes, that is correct. I did them in the middle of
54 the night, last night.
55
56 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Does that fall into the same category,
57 Mr. Rampton, of waiting to see?
58
59 MR. RAMPTON: Yes. I have just looked at it. It is a question
60 of whether or not Mr. Morris needs leave, actually, at this
