Day 256 - 04 Jun 96 - Page 18

     
     1        to 170.  Their high is near our low, you see.  So we had an
     2        opportunity of seeing what goes on if we continually
     3        decrease the cholesterol level; and what we -----
     4
     5   Q.   The relationship -- sorry.
     6        A.  What we found was, in fact, as this gradually came
     7        down, the various cancers and heart diseases also came
     8        down.  The determinative cholesterol at these low ranges,
     9        where the dietary determines cholesterol, these low ranges
    10        were the same as the dietary determines the cholesterol to
    11        high ranges, that is to say, higher fat intake in China,
    12        higher intake of animal protein, in particular, in meats
    13        and dairy and the like; and the lower the intake of fibre
    14        and legumes, once this started to occur, the cholesterol
    15        level started to go up, it was rather linear; and as soon
    16        as the cholesterol level starts to go up, these diseases
    17        start to occur, from near nothing up to something that is
    18        significant.
    19
    20        So, in answer to your question, it is basically, we
         believe, quite a linear relationship.
    22
    23   Q.   I will continue to read:
    24
    25        "Chinese consume more total calories (per unit of body
    26        weight), yet have far less obesity than Americans, probably
    27        accounted for both by greater physical activity and greater
    28        consumption of a low fat, plant-based diet.
    29
    30        "Chronic infection with hepatitis B virus" -- I do not know
    31        if this is relevant, the liver cancer, but I will read it
    32        anyway.  "Chronic infection with hepatitus B virus is a
    33        major cause of primary liver cancer.  Together with the
    34        highly significant nutritional findings, this cancer
    35        appears to be a viral/nutritional disease, not a
    36        viral/chemical carcinogen disease as previously thought.
    37        (Our data on this question are more comprehensive than all
    38        others combined, thus our conclusion on the role of
    39        nutrition, even though different, is highly relevant).
    40        Control" -- well, I will not read the rest of that
         paragraph.  (Pause)
    42
    43   THE WITNESS:   I can summarise that last little bit in a couple
    44        of sentences, if you want.  I do not know whether -----
    45
    46   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Say what you want to say about that.
    47        A.  Yes.  These last points here are dealing with some
    48        diseases that are more common in China than in the West;
    49        and so, such as with liver cancer, stomach cancer, cervical
    50        cancer, in some cases stroke, it is puzzling to some 
    51        individuals why those diseases would be high in a society 
    52        that are generally consuming a lot of plant material.  So, 
    53        it turns out that these diseases have some specific causes
    54        to begin with; in other words, there is a much higher
    55        proportion of people in those societies who are initially
    56        susceptible to those diseases; and, with liver cancer, for
    57        example, it is hepatitis B virus, and for stomach cancer it
    58        is another organism called (inaudible), and so forth.
    59
    60        So, what we basically see in this kind of analysis is that