Day 301 - 15 Nov 96 - Page 10

     
     1
     2   MR. MORRIS:   I mean, in one way it is difficult, because I am
     3        not a trained advocate.
     4
     5   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I know.  I am trying to draw it out of you
     6        for that very reason.
     7
     8   MR. MORRIS:   I know, but I am alert enough that there are all
     9        kinds of, you know, issues with identifying what is
    10        defamatory, what is not defamatory, what is fact, what is
    11        comment, and a lot of it is common sense in many ways.
    12
    13        The problem is, I would say a lot of the fact sheet is not
    14        defamatory, especially because the context is one of
    15        criticising a whole industry type of problem, type of diet.
    16
    17   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   I have said before I do not understand that,
    18        save when it comes to motive, because it seems to me it
    19        does not matter that you are criticising a whole industry
    20        so long as it is clear you are criticising one particular
         player in that industry, namely McDonald's.
    22
    23        When one comes to motive, of course, it may be, because you
    24        say, 'Look, we are not just having a bite at McDonald's, we
    25        are putting forward points which we feel strongly about in
    26        relation to the whole industry'.
    27
    28   MS. STEEL:   But are you not saying the same thing, because your
    29        point is that these things are not defamatory because they
    30        are widespread in society?
    31
    32   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No, no, I am not saying that at all.  I am
    33        not saying that at all.
    34
    35   MS. STEEL:   I thought you were saying -----
    36
    37   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Lots of things which are widespread in
    38        society are widespread in society because of the
    39        unattractive character of the people who are making them
    40        widespread, and to say that people do this or people do
         that is perfectly capable of being defamatory however
    42        widespread it is.
    43
    44        It may be easy to justify it by saying it is true, but that
    45        is another factor.  All we are considering -- and I have
    46        said this before, and I must get to grips with it when I
    47        write the judgment and, therefore, I want your help on it.
    48
    49   MR. MORRIS:   Right.
    50
    51   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   What do you accept is either expressly
    52        written or a clear inference from what is in the leaflet
    53        which would reduce McDonald's in the view of ordinary
    54        reasonable people?
    55
    56   MS. STEEL:   Can I just ask, because what I thought you were
    57        saying was that the statement that McDonald's pay low wages
    58        was not defamatory, like, on its own, because, you know,
    59        just most people would accept it or something like that.
    60