Day 301 - 15 Nov 96 - Page 11

     
     1   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   No, not necessarily.  To say that someone
     2        pays low wages is not necessarily defamatory at all, it
     3        seems to me.  I mean, just to give you an example; if there
     4        was nothing more to it than that, people might work for
     5        Oxfam.  For all I know, Oxfam pay jolly good wages.  I just
     6        don't know.  But suppose someone worked for Oxfam for an
     7        absolute pittance; then that might not be defamatory of
     8        Oxfam because the person concerned might well have gone
     9        into the job with their eyes open saying 'I know they want
    10        to keep as much of their income as they can for their good
    11        causes and I am quite prepared to work for £2 an hour or
    12        whatever it is because I share their aim'.
    13
    14        So just to say you pay low wages may well not be
    15        defamatory.  If you say in the same breath, you pay low
    16        wages for people to work in bad conditions in order to make
    17        fat profits, then that is a different thing.
    18
    19   MS. STEEL:   I think that even without the bad conditions I
    20        think you pay low wages in order for McDonald's to make fat
         profits ----
    22
    23   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Well, this is what I want you to say.  If
    24        what you are coming round to saying is 'We accept that this
    25        leaflet says they pay low wages in order to make fat
    26        profits and we accept that that is defamatory', then I can
    27        make a note of that and I have got it down.
    28
    29   MR. MORRIS:   I would say, you know, if we were all being honest
    30        about it, you know, there are too many libel cases in this
    31        country because companies are jumping about and other
    32        people jumping about defending their reputations when
    33        basically they should be more robust.
    34
    35   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   This is not answering my question.
    36
    37   MR. MORRIS:   It is in one way because I think that most of the
    38        leaflet is not defamatory because, you know, McDonald's is
    39        quite capable of promoting its reputation, which is an
    40        artificial reputation anyway because of the huge amount
         they spend on advertising, and -----
    42
    43   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Mr. Morris, just stop there.  One of the
    44        reasons why I thought it was a good idea to tell you you
    45        have got two days on this and three days on that and three
    46        days on employment, was I thought it might encourage you
    47        not to make the same general points over and over again but
    48        to discipline yourself to make the important points on the
    49        particular topic within the three days.
    50
    51   MR. MORRIS:   Well -----
    52
    53   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   If you do not want to tell me what you think
    54        is defamatory in this section, do not, but I must give you
    55        the opportunity to.
    56
    57   MR. MORRIS:   Well, I would say that just as in -- I don't know,
    58        we do not understand the law in the same way so it is very
    59        difficult for us to say.  Basically, what we are saying
    60        about this section is it is true, that -- I suppose the