Day 301 - 15 Nov 96 - Page 12

     
     1        sting of it is defamatory, that, you know, the catering
     2        industry in general, and McDonald's is part of that, it is
     3        poor pay and conditions.
     4
     5   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Just pause.  (Pause)  Yes.
     6
     7   MS. STEEL:   And I think that it is done for the purposes of
     8        making profits off the backs of -- well, for making
     9        profits.
    10
    11   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Carry on.  Do not let Mr. Morris interrupt
    12        you.  And it is done....?
    13
    14   MS. STEEL:   For the sake of making profits.  They are making
    15        their profits off the backs of other people, because they
    16        are paying them low wages and making them work extremely
    17        fast and hard, rather than employing more people, which
    18        would cost them more money.
    19
    20   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   Can I suggest, you were going to say,
         I think, more than just other people.  Is this part of it
    22        too; that it is done for the sake of making profits off the
    23        backs of other people who they know....  This is my
    24        suggestion.  You do not have to agree with it, but I want
    25        to see what you say because when I write my judgment I must
    26        know what you say about meaning and what is defamatory.  I
    27        am quite certain I will know what Mr. Rampton says, but
    28        I must know what you say.  Who they know to be at a
    29        disadvantage in looking -- or just be at a disadvantage
    30        because they have deterred them from union representation
    31        and because they are members of disadvantaged groups such
    32        as women and black people.
    33
    34   MR. MORRIS:   I think young people would have to be part of
    35        that.
    36
    37   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Sorry?
    38
    39   MR. MORRIS:   And young people.
    40
    MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, women and black people and young people.
    42
    43   MS. STEEL:   I don't know I would express it quite like that,
    44        but certainly that -----
    45
    46   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No, this is a quite open attempt to draw out
    47        of you or to help you to express what, if any, defamatory
    48        meaning there is.  So while you have got Caseview in front
    49        of you -----
    50
    51   MS. STEEL:   I would say they are doing it for the sake of --
    52        that they are exploiting people for low wages and poor
    53        conditions in order to make more profits and to that end
    54        they seek to employ the people who are most disadvantaged
    55        in society, because they know that they can get away with
    56        paying them less.  Basically, they just want to employ the
    57        people who are going to work for less.  It does not matter
    58        who they are, but the reality is that those people are the
    59        disadvantaged ones in society, generally.  And that also,
    60        in order to protect their profits, they do not want workers