Day 301 - 15 Nov 96 - Page 45
1 little bit. Tough on them, really. They might have to put
2 up the prices of their product to compensate for it -- and
3 so what?
4
5 The point is, it is not just an individual company; it is
6 also if companies as a whole are recognising unions, and
7 are forced to, then there is a general increase in wage
8 levels throughout society, and conditions and basic rights,
9 they will be, you know, statutory, the abolition of the
10 Wage Councils would only occur in a situation where the
11 union movement was weakened. Et cetera et cetera. So I do
12 not see any bar to McDonald's workers' wages doubling if
13 they had union representation.
14
15 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Just let me make a note. (Pause).
16
17 MR. MORRIS: I mean, you are setting standards which are saying
18 society is not prepared to go less than in any
19 circumstances, and union rights and basic decent pay is
20 something that should be a right and once it is established
21 it just becomes normal. But because it seems to be not
22 normal to have decent wages in the catering industry, or
23 union recognition, it seems it is an OK thing, and
24 therefore, you are a wild extremist if you say they should
25 be paid £6 an hour. All that happens is if the government
26 tomorrow brought in a law saying everyone had to be paid £6
27 an hour, it would be done in five minutes, because everyone
28 has to obey the law. It is all a question of balance of
29 power, really.
30
31 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I think you have probably made those points
32 before somewhere.
33
34 MR. MORRIS: Well, it came out quite naturally.
35
36 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes. Anyway, I have got it down and I will
37 be able to look at the transcript, as well. I have to say,
38 at the moment I have more faith in things like
39 representation during disputes so that instead of saying,
40 'Well, if they are going to be like that, I am off', it
41 might be sorted out and they would stay in employment,
42 something of that kind, than I have in thinking wages would
43 be doubled. So, if, as you go through, you think there is
44 anything which lends weight to your suggestion that wages
45 would significantly improve, or if it occurs to you, or
46 Ms. Steel, then let me know.
47
48 MS. STEEL: Can I say, I think the spin off of what you have
49 just said about more faith, like about things in like
50 representation during dispute, would be that the workers
51 would be more confident about getting in a dispute in the
52 first place if they knew they had backing.
53
54 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I don't know, the whole idea might be to
55 have as few disputes of any kind as possible.
56
57 MS. STEEL: A dispute in order to improve conditions, not just
58 for the sake of it -- well, obviously, no-one has a dispute
59 for the sake of having a dispute.
60
