Day 309 - 03 Dec 96 - Page 04
1 MR. RAMPTON: I have picked out one of the examples
2 your Lordship gave in argument. I think we are discussing
3 the thing with the Defendants, to reflect that, and if one
4 thinks of oneself as a parent and then if one imagines
5 one's teenage son is riding a motorbike without a crash
6 helmet one would be, I would say, very worried. It is that
7 sort of risk that I took to be intended to be conveyed by
8 the words "very real".
9
10 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Right. Thank you. Then on page 3 is
11 something which I think relates back to something which
12 I said to either Ms. Steel or Mr. Morris, or both of them,
13 and that is about the standard of proof. It is at
14 paragraph (v) on page 3.
15
16 MR. RAMPTON: It is not very well expressed.
17
18 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Well -----
19
20 MR. RAMPTON: It is shortened.
21
22 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I put it to Ms. Steel and Mr. Morris, and I
23 would like to put it to you, that the ratio of the cases,
24 which you refer to and which I have read, is not, it seems
25 to me, that the standard of proof wobbles up and down
26 according to how serious the allegation is which you have
27 to prove, but that it is a matter of common sense that if a
28 serious allegation is made against a person since by and
29 large people conduct themselves with a modicum of
30 standards, generally speaking, if it is a very serious
31 allegation you start off from the premise that -- subject
32 of course to all the surrounding circumstances -- it is
33 inherently unlikely that someone will behave in that way,
34 and, therefore, you need a greater weight of evidence to
35 persuade you that on this occasion they did.
36
37 MR. RAMPTON: I am grateful for that because that is how
38 I understood it. I say it is badly expressed, and it is
39 badly expressed. May I pick up what your Lordship said and
40 re-express it in this way? One would need pretty good
41 evidence to displace the improbability that a food
42 retailing company such as McDonald's was selling food which
43 (a) was very unhealthy in the sense expressed by
44 your Lordship's meaning, and (b) which they knew was very
45 unhealthy in that sense.
46
47 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I have obviously got to come to my own view
48 about that, or any other part of the case where I think it
49 may apply. But I have the test right, have I?
50
51 MR. RAMPTON: You have. I am sure that is right, yes. The
52 greater the improbability -----
53
54 MR. JUSTICE BELL: It does not matter which way round it is.
55
56 MR. RAMPTON: Well -----
57
58 MR. JUSTICE BELL: It does not matter who the burden of proof is
59 on in a particular respect in the particular case, I have
60 got the whole of the principle. Yes.
