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Simtel MSDOS 1992 September
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Simtel20_Sept92.cdr
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msdos
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ventura
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qa_1.arc
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QA-1.TXT
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1988-08-05
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@PARAFILTR ON =
@CHAPTER = Chapter 1: Software
@MENU = File Menu
@QUESTION = I created a c<$IChapter Files>hapter file, saved it and
now I can't find it. What happened to it?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Make sure when you save a file that you are saving it to
the correct subdirectory and that you have spelled the filename correctly. Most
errors of this type are a product of not being observant to a change
in subdirectory, or making a typo when keying in the name of the file
to be saved.
@QUESTION = A chapt<$IChapter files>er file was created and saved. Ventura
was reinstalled and the chapter file was lost. What happened?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Reloading Ventura should not affect existing chapter files. The
installation procedure will only overwrite existing Ventura software. Make
sure files are <169>saved<170> correctly using the <169>Save As<170>
command under the File pull down menu, using a file name different
from the sample files created by Ventura.
@QUESTION = <$IChapter loading - abort>Can I abort loading a chapter
once it has begun?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = No. Once Ventura has started loading a chapter you must
let it finish before executing any other instructions.
@QUESTION = When I Loaded Ventura I could not find my w<$IWord processors
>ord processing text file.
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Make sure that when you use the Load Text/Picture selection,
under the Files pull down menu, that you are looking in the proper
subdirectory for your word processing files. A newly initialized
system will default to TYPESET as the subdirectory for all files. Use
the mouse to point to the Backup button in the Item Selector Dialog
Box. Pressing the mouse button once will display all subdirectories
available on your disk. Point to your word processing subdirectory
with the mouse arrow, press the mouse button once to change directories. You
will now see all files that match the filter on the Directory Line. Point
to the file you want to load and then Select OK.
@QUESTION = I created a document within Ventura typing all the text
myself. I saved the text file as a Wordstar file but when I recall
the chapter it doesn't find my text file.
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = After much probing it was discovered that the user had specified
an erroneous subdirectory when saving her file in the Wordstar format. Unfortunately,
Ventura does not verify subdirectories before it attemps to write
files to disk. If the subdirectory is invalid Ventura dumps the file
from its buffer and the data is lost. ALWAYS be sure to verify the
subdirectory name befor saving files in Ventura.<$IText files - lost>
@QUESTION = I can't seem to l<$ILoading Images>oad a PC P<$IPC Paintbrush>aintbrush
file into Ventura, I load the picture but it won't display in the
frame.
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Make sure the frame has been Selected when you load the
Paintbrush file. If it hasn't, Select it and then Select the Paintbrush
file from the Assignment list, the file should now load into the frame. Also
make sure the customer is using PC Paintbrush Version 2.5 or greater
and that he is using PC Paintbrush and not PC Paint. PC Paint is
not compatible.
@QUESTION = I am unable to load certain PC Paintbrush files. There
doesn't seem to be any logical pattern as to which load and which
don't.
@VERPATCH = 1.0 limitation--fixed in 1.1(all)
@ANSWER = Z Soft changed the way they created the header record in
PC Paintbrush files. In some cases the header formats in a manner
that Ventura Version 1.0 cannot read. Ventura Version 1.1 has been
altered to correct this problem.<$IPC Paintbrush - some files won't
load>
@QUESTION = I am having difficulty loading a MacPICT file into Ventura.
@VERPATCH = 1.1(unpatched) bug--fixed in 1.1(patch 1)
@ANSWER = The preliminary release of 1.1 was unable to convert MacPICT
files larger than 32K. This problem has been fixed by Patch 1 (7/2/87).<$IMacPICT
- file loading>
@QUESTION = I have loaded a MacPICT file and the text appears much
larger than in the original document.
@VERPATCH = 1.1(unpatched) limitation--improved in 1.1(patch 1)
@ANSWER = The preliminary release of 1.1 did not properly size the
text from MacPICT files. This problem has been reduced by Patch 1
(7/2/87), though not completely eliminated.<$IMacPict - text distortion>
@QUESTION = When I try to retrieve a file under the M<$IMentor Graphics>entor
Graphics selection I get a message that the file is not in the appropriate
format. Why?
@VERPATCH = 1.1(all)
@ANSWER = In duplicating this error, it was found that the example
files provided by Ventura do not contain samples of Mentor Graphics
files. The filter that is used to retrieve Mentor Graphics images
is *.P* and the default subdirectory is TYPESET. Using this filter
the system displayed a publication file as satisfying the criteria
for the filter search. Of course, this publication file was not in
Mentor Graphics format and that caused the error message.
@QUESTION = I have a 640K machine and received an <169>ins<$IInsufficient
Memory>ufficient memory<170> message when I tried to load a 10 thousand
character ASCII text file, Why?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Normally a 640K machine should be able to load up to 150K
of text with Ventura 1.0, or up to 500K with Ventura 1.1. There could
be several reasons why this file did not load. 1) Background utilities
such as Sidekick, Superkey, Turbo-Lightning, Norton Utilities, etc.
are memory resident programs and reduce the amount of memory available
to load files and programs. Ventura strongly suggests that all background
utilities be deactivated prior to loading Ventura Publisher. 2) The
version of DOS currently active, the display type in use, the number
of screen fonts in use, the number of buffers reserved in the config.sys
file all impact the amount of memory available for Ventura. 3) Certain
word processing programs generate a header record prior to the actual
text of the document, when Ventura tries to read this file in as an
ASCII text file it encounters the header record and this can trigger
a memory type of error message.
@ANSWER2 = When you encounter a memory type error, find out what is
in the user's autoexec.bat file. See if any background utilities
have been loaded. Get the user to run CHKDSK and tell you how much
memory is available on his system. Find out what version of DOS they
are using, what type of monitor, and check the buffers statement in
the Config.sys file. Background utilities as a firm rule should be
deactivated prior to running Ventura. The hardware configuration
and DOS version may reduce somewhat the amount of memory available
and subsequently the size of the file that can be loaded.
@ANSWER2 = In this particular case, however, the problem was probably
caused by incorrectly identifying a word processing file as an ASCII
text file. Ventura was not expecting to see a header and could not
properly read the file. Ventura has certain filters which are used
to read word processing files and these are designed to recognize
and decode header information. The ASCII text read function does
not utilize these types of filters.
@QUESTION = I have a 12K ASCII file which will not load into Ventura. Can
you tell me why?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = It appears that we did an overkill on this customer. In
explaining that paragraph ends were memory intensive and suggesting
line breaks instead, the customer stripped out <MU>all<D> paragraph
ends leaving one huge 12K paragraph. Ventura cannot handle single
paragraphs this large and displayed a memory error message. Paragraph
size should be kept to below 7K.<$IFile loading error - small ASCII
file>
@QUESTION = I cannot get my HPGL file to load into Ventura. Why?
@VERPATCH = 1.1(unpatched) limitation--improved in 1.1(patch 1), further
improved in 1.1(patch 2)
@ANSWER = Ventura identified a problem with the converter for HPGL
files in Ventura 1.1(unpatched). The converter was improved in Patch
1 (7/2/87) and further improved in Patch 2 (2/5/88).<$IHPGL - file
loading>
@QUESTION = I have just purchased the latest version of AutoCad<$IAutoCAD
9.0> and my DXF and SLD files will not load.
@VERPATCH = 1.1(unpatched, patch 1), 1.1(patch 2)
@ANSWER = The latest version of AutoCAD--Version 9.0--incorporates
changes in the format of SLD and DXF files. This makes them incompatible
with Ventura Version 1.1, unpatched (4/10/87) and Patch 1 (7/2/87).
Patch 2 (2/5/88) can read AutoCAD 9.0 SLD files, but no change has
been made for DXF.<R>
<R>
An alternative to DXF and SLD for AutoCAD is to try HPGL.
@QUESTION = Trying to<$ILockup - loading chapter> load a chapter from
drive A: on one computer <$ILoading chapter - lockup> causes a lockup.
Same chapter loads fine on another computer.
@VERPATCH = 1.1(all)
@ANSWER = Problem was traced to CONFIG.SYS entries of Buffers=25,
Files=99. Had customer change to Buffers=15, Files=15, and reboot.
Chapter then loaded fine.
@QUESTION = The user had loaded her<$IBackup text file loss> backup
text file (filename.$XT) as her original text file and continued to
work with backup on. This resulted in losing both the new and old
backup file.
@VERPATCH = 1.1(all)
@ANSWER = The user should always RENAME the backup file to something
without the backup file code "$" in it before using it as a text file.
@QUESTION = When a MultiMate<$IMultimate - chopped tags> file is pulled
into Ventura and then saved, tag names<$ITags, chopped - Multimate>
often appear in the document, chopped, with trailing dots. As well,
the tag names appear in the assignment list as being chopped.
@VERPATCH = 1.1(unpatched, patch 1) bug--fixed in 1.1(patch 2)
@ANSWERLAST = This problem exists with Version 1.1 unpatched (4/10/87)
and Patch 1 (7/2/87). Using these versions, the only way to prevent
the problem is to save the document to ASCII under Multimate, or else
to load it into Ventura and then perform a FILE TYPE/RENAME, saving
it out to ASCII format.<R>
<R>
Patch 2 (2/5/88) corrects this problem.
@MENU = Edit Menu
@QUESTION = When I am keying text into a document in Ventura using
Ventura's text editor, why won't the scre<$IText Editing>en sc<$IScreen
Scrolling>roll when full?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Ventura's text editor was not designed to be a full function
word processing system. It provides basic text editing capabilities
under the assumption that a word processor would be used to generate
large blocks of text.
@QUESTION = I have a multi-page document in which there are a lot
of footnotes. On several pages there is a large block of white space
under the last footnote entry and I cannot get the text to reformat
to eliminate this space. I have tried to change margins and resize
the footer frame, nothing works.
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = What you have discovered is a Catch-22 type situation within
Ventura. If you have 7 or 8 footnotes on a page, entering the text
for the footnotes will expand the footnote frame upward to accomodate
the text (up to one half page). As the footnote frame moves upward,
text is flowed off the current page to the following page to make
room for the frame. Let's say that you are entering text for footnote
number 5 and as you do the frame moves up and pushes the text containing
the footnote reference for footnotes 5,6,7 and 8 onto the next page. As
the footnote reference is moved to the next page so also is the text
for that footnote. The space in the footnote frame it used to occupy
is left blank. If you were shrink the footnote frame to flow text
back from the next page the footnote reference for footnote 5 would
return, Ventura would try to reformat the footnote frame again pushing
the footnote reference to the next page leaving white space in the
footnote frame. You can see how you could get stuck in an endless
loop here. The only workaround for documents that are footnote intensive
is to manually create the footnote references and footnote frames
and work with the sizing of the frames manually. While this may be
cumbersome, it is the only way to circumvent the white space problem.<$IFootnotes
- large block of white space below>
@QUESTION = I have four footnotes on a page. As I began entering
text to define the footnote references I lost some text from footnote
four as I expanded footnote three. Can you tell me what happened?<$IFootnotes
- limitations>
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER2LAST = Ventura supports one half page of footnotes. In this
particular instance the text added to footnote number three brought
the effective area of the footnote to more than half a page and the
last few lines of footnote number four were dropped in order to accomodate
the text above.
@MENU = View Menu
@QUESTION = Can I <$IEdit text>edit text in all views?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Yes. All functions work in all views.
@QUESTION = How do I see tw<$IFacing Pages View>o pages of a document
at once?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWERLAST = Under the View pull down menu is a selection <169>Facing
Pages View<170>. Note: Double sided must be sele cted in Page Layout
Dialog Box for this feature to be active.
@MENU = Page Menu
@QUESTION = Can I number an out<$IAuto Numbering>line<$IOutlines>
or chapter mixing the types of identifiers I use for the line numbers.
@EXAMPLE = Example: 1 First Heading
@EXAMPLE = 1.A Second Heading
@EXAMPLE = 1.A.1 Third Heading
@EXAMPLE = 1.A.1.a Fourth Heading
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Yes. Use the Auto Numbering selection in the Page menu. The
dialog box will appear and the cursor will be at level 1. To recreate
the example above, Select [1,2] as the first level numbering template. Ventura
will insert [*tag name,1] on the level 1 line. Change the <169>tag
name<170> to reflect the name of the tag that you are using for the
first level of your outline. Placing a period <169>.<170> after the
right bracket will separate subsequent level identifiers. Now move
the cursor to level 2 and Select the identifier for level 2. In the
example above, [A,B] was Selected. Again Ventura inserts [*tag name,A]
on the level 2 line. Change the <169>tag name<170> to reflect the
second level of the outline. You can identify up to eight levels
in Ventura Version 1.0, or ten levels in Version 1.1, each with a
different numbering template.
@QUESTION = I am trying to restart autonumbering in Version 1.1 chapters. As
I change the number sequence in one chapter it changes the values
in the other chapters as well. Why?
@VERPATCH = 1.1(all)
@ANSWER = The values for autonumbering are stored in the style sheet. Style
sheets that are used for multiple chapters carry the value from one
chapter to another. The workaround is to make a separate copy of
the style sheet for each chapter. Each style sheet would contain
the autonumbering values for it's own chapter.<$IAutonumbering - does
not restart correctly>
@QUESTION = Sometimes I make a change to or activate autonumbers,
save the chapter and reload it later, and the<$IAutonumbering - changes
not saved> autonumbering changes that were made are not there. Why?
@VERPATCH = 1.1(unpatched, patch 1)--fixed in 1.1(patch 2)
@ANSWER = If the only change made to a style sheet is within autonumbers,
those changes are not saved when the chapter is saved. This problem
exists in Version 1.1 unpatched (4/10/87) and Patch 1 (7/2/87) but
is corrected in Patch 2 (2/5/88).
@ANSWER2 = <B>WORKAROUND:<D> In order to ensure that the Style Sheet
is saved, the user should go into the Paragraph Menu, select FONT,
and click on OK in that dialog box. This will cause a "SAVE" of the
Style Sheet and ensure that the autonumber changes are stored when
the chapter is saved.
@QUESTION = Using autonumbering, I can't get Ventura to start a section
with the right letter.
@VERPATCH = 1.1(all)
@ANSWER = Customer wanted a section head tagged as "Chapter" to be
autonumbered with capital letters (A, B, etc.) and to begin with the
letter "E". She therefore entered, as Level 1 of Autonumbering:
@ANSWER2 = [*Chapter, A,E]
@ANSWER2 = Instead of starting at E, the "Chapter" section head started
with "U."
@ANSWER2 = This was the result of a misunderstanding of the instructions
in the Reference Guide. The only clue to what the operator did wrong
is at the top of page 5-56 of the Reference Guide: "The starting number
is always entered in arabic." This means: No matter what style of
autonumbering you select, whether it be arabic numerals or Roman numerals
or alphabetic letters, the starting point must be specified as an
arabic numeral.
@ANSWER2 = To get Autonumbering to behave as intended, it is necessary
to realize that the letter "E" is letter number 5 of the alphabet
and enter:
@ANSWER2 = [*Chapter, A,5]
@ANSWER2 = When this was done it worked fine.
@QUESTION = I am using First Match in my header, but on some pages
the Header is not maintaining the Tag Name. It is looking forward
and picking up the next Tag Name on the next page.
@VERPATCH = 1.1(all)
@ANSWER = This problem occurs when "Page Break" is set to "Before/Until
Left." This customer was using it to insure that the Chapters started
on a Left page.<R>
<R>
<MU>WORKAROUND:<D> If the user is creating blank right pages with
this tag, he can workaround the problem by using Insert Page Before
Current Page. This replaces the page created by the tag with an inserted
blank page and will up the correct First Match.
@QUESTION = The footnote separator line width<$IFootnotes - separator
line> does not show up as the width that I enter.
@VERPATCH = 1.1(all)
@ANSWER = An example of this situation is as follows:<R>
<R>
Customer has left margin = 1.00" on underlying page. Sets separator
line width = 2.00" and has two problems with the result:
@ANSWER2 = 1) The width of the separator line is only 1", not 2" as
desired.
@ANSWER2 = 2) The separator line begins over the asterisk (*) which
he is using as the footnote reference. He would rather have the separator
begin over the footnote text itself, but can't see how to do it.
@ANSWER2 = 1)--<B>REASON:<D><R>
<R>
This is due to an obscure little error in the code. Ventura draws
the separator line between two points--an origin point and a destination
point. The origin point is taken at the left margin of the underlying
page--in this case, 1" from the left edge of the paper. The destination
point should be 2" to the right of the margin, but a mistake was made:
it is set at 2" to the right of the edge of the paper.
@ANSWER2 = 1--<B>WORKAROUND:<D><R>
<R>
To get a given separator line width, simply enter that amount PLUS
the left margin width in the "Footnote Settings" dialog box. For example:
@ANSWER2 = Left margin = 1.00"
@ANSWER2 = Desired separator line width = 2.00"
@ANSWER2 = In "Footnote Settings" dialog box, enter:
@ANSWER2 = Separator Line Width = 2.00" + 1.00" = 3.00"
@ANSWERLAST = 2) This is a Ventura software limitation. The "Footnote
Settings" dialog box does not provide a way to start the separator
line anywhere except the left margin.
@MENU = Frame Menu
@QUESTION = Can I have more than one underlying page format in a single
chapter?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Yes the settings for the first underlying page are saved
in the style sheet and settings for subsequent underlying pages are
stored in the chapter file. The potential for a new underlying page
is created each time you add a new page. All that you need to do
is change the margins and columns for the new page format.<$IUnderlying
page - multiple in one chapter>
@QUESTION = I created a page with four frames and added captions under
each frame. When I used the copy function to copy these frames to
another page the figure counters in the captions had reversed.
@VERPATCH = 1.0 bug--fixed in 1.1(all)
@ANSWER = This was a bug in Version 1.0. You can workaround it simply
by cutting and pasting again on the page in which they are incorrect. They
will again be reversed only this time they will wind up in the correct
order. This problem has been fixed in Version 1.1.<$IFrames - cut
and paste reverses order>
@QUESTION = Is there a maximum number of frames you can place on a
page?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = No.<$IFrames - maximum number>
@QUESTION = I have placed a small amount of padding around a frame
which is imbedded in a paragraph of text. Ventura seems to have inserted
some extra space in the text lines which appear to the upper right
and lower left of the frame.
@VERPATCH = 1.1(all)--software limitation
@ANSWER = This is a complex screen formating problem which will be
very difficult to fix. Widening the frame to make it margin wide
is the only workaround.<$IFrame padding>
@QUESTION = I have created several frames and within the caption box
have turned on the figure counter. However, I have noticed <$IFigures
- numbered incorrectly>that the figure numbers are out of sequence. Why?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Ventura keeps track of frames in the order in which they
were drawn. Consequently, the figure counter will number frames in
the order they were created.
@QUESTION = Why do my column widths change from my original settings? I
created a 14 pica column and upon returning to the <$IColumn measure
variation>Margins and Columns dialog box the measurement changes to
13 picas eleven points.
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Ventura uses a global measuring format based on 1200 dots
per inch to store column and margin measurements, occasionally during
rounding as these measurements are converted into picas and points
you will see a small variation.
@QUESTION = <$IRuling box around>I created a frame with a ruling box
around using dashes as the ruling line. When I go to reduced view,
the system locks up. Why?
@VERPATCH = 1.0 bug--fixed in 1.1(all)
@ANSWER = There is a problem with dashes as ruling lines in Version
1.0 that could cause this lock up in reduced view, especially if the
space between the dashes is small. As an interim measure, either
increase the space between dashes or refrain from using the reduced
view on pages with this ruling effect. This problem was fixed in
Version 1.1.
@QUESTION = I would like to <169>anchor<170> a frame, with an enclosed
<$IFrames - move with text>graphic, to a block of text so that when
text is added or deleted the frame moves with the assigned text. Is
this possible?
@VERPATCH = 1.0, 1.1(all)
@ANSWER = The ability to anchor frames is a feature of Version 1.1,
it is not supported in 1.0.
@QUESTION = I am trying to create a <$IRuling line around page> hairline
rule one half inch in from the edge of the page all the way around
the page. What is the easiest way to do this?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Select the Underlying Page frame and in the Frame menu Select
Ruling Box Around. Select Frame for the width of rule, .5 inches
for the Spave Above Rule one, and .005 for the height of Rule one. This
should produce the desired effect.
@QUESTION = I created a <$IVertical rules>vertical rule between two
columns. It show up on the first page of my document, skips the second
and reappears on the third. Why?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = You probably have your page layout set to double sided and
have set the vertical rule parameter for the right side of the page
but have not turned it on for the left side. Whenever you have a
condition that skips pages, check to see that you have set up the
left and right pages for the same attributes.
@QUESTION = I want to create a heading section above two columns separated
by a <$IVertical rules>vertical rule, I created a ruling line below
a tag and then made the tag frame wide, to push the vertical rule
below the heading information. This pushed part of the vertical rule
below the tag but there is still some of the it showing in the <$IText
alignment>heading section. How could this have happened?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Chances are that you have tags placed above the tag containing
the ruling line that are only column wide. Check each tag above the
ruling line and make sure its alignment is frame wide instead of column
wide.
@QUESTION = I created a shaded repe<$IRepeating Frames>ating frame
with a graphic image in it to run throughout a chapter, but I want
different text to appear within the frame on each page. The repeating
frame will have te<$IText Flow Around>xt flowing around it. How can
I do this?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Creating a repeating frame is not difficult, shading it
and placing a graphic in it is no problem. The problem here is that
when you activate text flow around, you cannot place another frame
on top of the repeating frame and display text in it. Text flow around
will not allow it. The solution here is to place another frame directly
below the repeating frame and shade it in the same manner as the repeating
frame (you will have to do this on each page). Now you can type different
text into each frame on each page with the appearance that it is all
part of the repeating frame.
@QUESTION = Can Ventura make tex<$IText Flow Around>t flow around
irre<$IIrregular Shapes>gular shaped images like circles and triangles?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = While not an automatic process, like flowing text around
frames, you can create this effect. First create a frame within a
column of text. You will notice that the text flows around the frame. Now
Select the graphics mode and draw a circle in the middle of the frame. Select
the frame and under the Frame menu, Select sizing and scaling. Select
text flow around Off. You should now see the text flowing inside
the frame and the circle. Now select the Add a New Frame box and
create a new frame that overlays the top portion of circle about the
height of one line of text. Next create a new frame just under the
one you just created that is a little wider, reaching just beyond
the perimeter of the circle. Keep creating frames until the circle
is covered. Size each frame so that it just extends beyond the edge
of the circle. These new frames, by default, will cause the text
to flow around them making it appear that the text is flowing around
the circle. Note: if you are having trouble aligning the frames,
turn Line Snap Off in the Options menu. This will give you a finer
adjustment capability in moving each frame.
@QUESTION = How do I move text to<$IMargins>ward the center of the
page, everything is too far to the left?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Under the Frame pull down menu the line selection for margins
and columns allows you to set margins for top, bottom, left and right. Select
this line item and adjust the left margin by increasing the value
of the space from the side of the page. Selected text may be moved
by adjusting the <169>In From Left<170> attributes in the Spacing
options under the Paragraph pull down menu.
@QUESTION = How do I get a do<$IContinue Document on Another Page>cument
to continue on another page ( from page 1 to page 4)?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWERLAST = To continue a text file or article from one page to
another, later in the document, (like newspapers do continuing stories
on another page) create your frame on the initial page and load the
text file. Ventura will place as much text as will fit into the frame. Now
go to the page where the article is to continue and create another
frame. From the Assignment list Select the text file again. Ventura
remembers where it left off and continues the text in second frame. If
the frame on the first page is resized, Ventura will automatically
pull text from the second frame to fill the first or push text from
the first to the second depending on whether the first frame is enlarged
or reduced. If page considerations require that the second frame
spill over to another non-sequential page repeat the procedure and
create the third frame and Select the text file again.
@MENU = Paragraph Menu
@QUESTION = I placed a ruling line above a block of text and when
I tried to place a ruling box around the same tag, the measurements
for the ruling line above show up in the ruling box around dialog
box.
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Ventura does not allow ruling box around to be active in
the same tag with ruling line above or ruling line below.<$IRuling
line above - with ruling box>
@QUESTION = My foreign language document is not hyphenating properly.
@VERPATCH = 1.1(unpatched) bug--fixed in 1.1(patch 1)
@ANSWER = A minor bug in foreign language hyphenation was discovered
in the initial release of Version 1.1. It was corrected in Patch 1
(7/2/87).
@QUESTION = I placed a tab at the beginning of a paragraph and it
<$IText alignment - tabs/text past col. end>pushed the text beyond
the edge of the right hand column. What caused this?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Tabs are not designed to be used to indent paragraphs, they
are designed to format tabular data. Use the fixed indent in the
Alignment dialog box under the Paragraph pull down menu to set indents
for paragraphs.
@QUESTION = What is the measurement for leader spacing in the Tab
<$ITabs - leader space measure>dialog box?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Leader spacing is the same as the normal space width setting.
@QUESTION = I can't get any spacing to show up between two <$ISpacing
- inter-paragraph>paragraphs in my document, I've set inter-paragraph
spacing at .45 inches for the first and .35 inches for the second. Why
isn't there spacing?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Inter-paragraph spacing is applied only if the spacing increments
for BOTH paragraphs is identical. In this case it is not. Inter-paragraph
spacing should be used for spacing between paragraphs with identical
tags. Use spacing Above and Below to space between different paragraph
tags. Remember that the spacing applied will be the greater of A)
the sum of Below space and overall ruling height for the first paragraph
OR B) the sum of Above and overall ruling height for the second paragraph,
PLUS the interparagraph spacing IF it is identical for both paragraphs,
PLUS the Inter-Line space for the first paragraph.
@QUESTION = I have created a page with two columns, a minor column
of about one and a half inches on the left side of the page and a
major column of about five inches on the right. I have created titles
which I want to outdent from the major column into the minor column. The
minor column is protected by a frame the size of the column. My problem
is that once I have out<$IOutdented Text>dented the titles I cannot
access them any longer with the paragraph tag or the text cursor. Wh<$IText
Alignment>at can I do to access these titles?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Normally you can outdent text beyond the edge of a column
without a problem. In this case the text was outdented so far that
it lost touch with the major column (all text and returns were beyond
edge of the major column) and could not be edited or tagged. By adding
spaces to the end of a line of text so that the paragraph end stays
within the column you can keep it <169>in touch<170> with the column
of origin and be able to access it for editing and/or tagging.
@QUESTION = I have assigned a bu<$IBullets>llet to a paragraph title
which appears in the margin to the left of my text. I tried to sh<$IShift
Text Up/Down>ift the text down to align the top of the title with
the top of the text and when I do the title moves but the bullet doesn't. How
can I move both?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = A bullet, is a system generated character and is not easy
to edit or shift. Try replacing the bullet with an ASCII 195. This
is done by holding down the ALT key and typing 195 on the numeric
pad. This will produce the same character and will allow you to move
it with the rest of the text.
@QUESTION = In trying to follow one of the examples in the training
guide I can not figure out how to change the address from three centered
lines, to one line, with the street on the lef<$IText Alignment>t,
the city in the middle and the phone number on the right. How is
this done?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Each of the three lines of the address should be assigned
a unique tag. The font style will remain identical on all three tags
but the alignment changes along with the line break attributes. On
the first line, the street, the alignment is left with a line break
set before the line. The second line, the city, is aligned center
with no line breaks. The third line, the phone, is aligned right
with the line break set after the line. This will place street, city
and phone on one line with the street on the left, the city centered
and the phone number on the right.
@QUESTION = I am trying to import a Wo<$IText Alignment>rdstar file
into the &TDOC-P1.STY style sheet and my text is three inches from
the left side of the page. I have tried to reset the margins in Wordstar
but I can't get the text closer to the left of the page. What can
I do?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = First of all, the margins for this particular style sheet
are set with a left margin of one and a half inches. By adjusting
this number the text can be moved further to the left. Another key
to watch, is the In Fro<$IIn from Left Spacing>m Left spacing for
the paragraph tags. In this style sheet Body Text, the default tag,
has an In From Left setting of one and a half inches. You can use
either setting (or both), margins or In From Left to properly position
your text.
@QUESTION = I increase the size (p<$IChanging Font Sizes>oint size)
of a line of te<$IText Disappeared>xt within a frame and it disappeared. Why?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = The size of the frame has a direct bearing on what fonts
will fit within the frame. If you are trying to fit a 48 point headline
in a frame that is only 36 points high it will not fit and therefore
Ventura will not display it. Remember that spacing above and below
the text and any ruling lines also affect the final display height
of the text. I can place a 24 point headline in a 36 point frame,
but if I add spacing above and/or below I could exceed 36 points and
the text will not display. If this happens, you appear to be stuck,
because you cannot <169>grab<170> the text with the Paragraph tagging
Icon, the text has apparently disappeared. The way to get around this
is to Select another line or paragraph on the screen, in a larger
frame, and tag it with the same tag that caused the text to disappear
in the smaller frame. Now you can reduce the font size for this text
until the <169>missing<170> text reappears in the small frame. Make
sure to return the text in the larger frame to its original tag.
@QUESTION = I would like to create a docume<$IText Alignment>nt with
titles for each paragraph appearing to the left of the paragraph. I
would also like to have a larger typeface for the titles, but I want
the top if the titles and the top of the ma<$IShift Text Up/Down>in
text to align with each other. How can I do this?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Placing the titles on the same line as the text is accomplished
by establishing two tags, one for the title and one for the text. These
two tags will also enable the user to establish two typefaces, one
for the title and one for the text. The title tag should be set for
the appropriate font size and the normal default alignment, spacing
and break attributes. The text tag should be set for the desired
font size and should have the following modifications to spacing and
break attributes: spacing should be In From Left enough to allow
the titles to appear as if in their own column. Line break should
be set for After the text, instead of the default Before, placing
the main text on the same line as the title. With both tags on the
same line the title and the text will not align horizontally along
the top because of the difference in type sizes.
@ANSWER2 = To move the title down, Select the text editing mode and
highlight the title by placing the text cursor at the begining of
the title and dragging the cursor the length of the title. The title
should now appear as white letters on a black background indicating
that it has been selected for a special attribute. Now Select the
Set Font box directly above the assignment list. Near the bottom
of the dialog box is a selection to Shift with an option of Up or
Down, Select down and insert a measure in either inches, picas & points
or centimeters. Select OK and you should see that your title has
moved down by the measure you indicated. You can <169>fine tune<170>
the alignment by adding to, or subtracting from, the Shift down measurement.
@ANSWER2 = If all your titles are to be the same size, there is a
way to move this attribute to other titles without having to repeat
this procedure for each title. After having successfully shifted
the first title down, place the text cursor at the begining of the
title, move the cursor to the left using the numeric keyboard keys
and watch the Current Selection box at the bottom of the assignment
list. When <169>Attr. Setting<170> appears in the box, stop and hold
down the shift key and press the delete key. This should <169>cut<170>
this attribute to be <169>pasted<170> to another title. Now move
the text cursor to the begining of the next title and press the insert
key (make sure you turn the text cursor on each time you move it by
pressing the left mouse button). If the title does not appear to
shift press the escape key to redraw the screen and it should shift
down.
@ANSWER2 = If you see a message on the screen that there was nothing
on the clipboard to insert, you may have to repeat the procedure of
assigning the attribute to the first title and then the <169>cut and
paste<170>. This may take some trial and error because there may
be multiple attributes assigned to a tag and you may not get the right
one on the first try. Once the attribute has been successfully cut,
it can be pasted repeatedly until all titles have been shifted. Remember
to immediately shift all titles once you have your attribute on the
clipboard. Any subsequent delete operation will overwrite the clipboard.
@QUESTION = How do I create the effect of whi<$IWhite Text/Black Background>te
text on a black background?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = First create a ruling line above the text that equals or
exceeds the height of the text. Next move the cursor down to the
<170>Space below line three<170> line and enter the same measure as
you did for the line itself. Next to this entry there are two boxes,
one with a plus in it and one with a minus, Select the one with the
minus and then Select OK. When the screen redraws, the text will
seem to have disappeared. Now go to the Font selection and select
White as the color of the text. It may be confusing when you return
to the screen, because you will see black text on a white background
and think that the effect did not work. Remember that paragraphs
which have been selected are shown in inverse video. Move the paragraph
Icon off the paragraph and press the left mouse button and you should
see the desired effect.
@QUESTION = The Headline i<$IAttribute Settings>n one of the exam<$IText
Different within same Tag>ple reads <169>Logo<170> for two lines of
text. The first line is large (about 24 point type), but the second
line is smaller (about 10 point type). Why can't I make the second
line look like the first, when they are tagged with the same tag?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = The second line probably has an Attribute Setting that is
overriding the paragraph tag. Whenever text within a paragraph tag
appears in a different font from the other text, it is a pretty good
bet that an Attribute has been set for that block of text. The attribute
can be removed by placing the text cursor at the beginning of the
word or block of text which is different. By using the left and right
arrow keys, move the text cursor until the words <169>Attr. Setting<170>
appear in the current selection box at the bottom of the assignment
list. Press the delete key and all the text within the tagged paragraph
should now look the same.
@QUESTION = I would like to change the f<$IFonts within Headers>onts
on a running header so that the Chapter title is a different typeface
than the Chapter number. How can I do this?
@VERPATCH = 1.0, 1.1(all)
@ANSWER = (1.0) In Version 1.0, fonts for headers and footers can
be changed using the paragraph tagging mode to change the whole generated
header. To change an individual piece of a generated header is not
possible in the paragraph tagging mode, or the text editing mode. A
new frame over the header frame will not work either.
@ANSWER2 = The following alternative assumes that the chapter title
will appear on the left of the page header, and the chapter number
will appear on the right. First, set the font for the generated header
so that it provides the typeface you want for the chapter numbers. Then
at the first page of the chapter, add a new page before the current
page. On this new page, type the chapter title and press RETURN (Ventura
will ask you for a text file name for this new text, so you will have
to assign it a name). Tag this new paragraph with a unique tag name,
Chapter for example. Now using your text editor highlight the text
and use the Set Font option to change the font to the desired style. Use
the page down key to return to the first acutal page of the chapter.
@ANSWER2 = Now Select Headers and Footers from the Page menu. If
you are using Double pages (left and right) make the following changes
for both the Left Header and the Right Header (make sure both are
turned on). You should see a cursor at the beginning of the first
line (Left). Erase whatever appears on that line and move the mouse
cursor down to the selection box <169>1st Match<170> Select this box
and you will see [ ag name] appear on line one. Use the arrow key
to move the cursor inside the right bracket. Use the backspace key
to erase <169>tag name<170> and type in the name of the new tag you
created on the previous page (I used Chapter). Your first line should
now appear [<<Chapter].
@ANSWER2 = Now move down to the fifth line (which is labelled <169>Right<170>
and erase that line if it is not blank. Move the mouse cursor to
the selection box <169>Chapter #<170> and Select this box. This should
complete the formatting of your header. Select OK and you should
now see the chapter title and the chapter number in different typefaces.
@ANSWER2 = (1.1) In Version 1.1 it is possible to set an attribute
with the the Headers and Footers Dialog Box which will change the
point size and weight of a word or words within the header or footer.
@QUESTION = How can I create a num<$INumeric Lists>eric list with
the n<$IText Alignment>umbers aligned by the decimal point?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = First create two tags, one for the numbers and one for the
text. Set the text tag for <169>In from Left<170> spacing about one
inch. Set the line break for this tag to come after the text. Set
the tag for the number to <169>In from Left<170> at zero. Now set
a tab for this tag. The tab should be decimal and positioned at one
half inch. This should provide the desired effect. The <169>In from
Left<170> spacing can be adjusted for either tag to fine tune the
relationship between the numbers and the text.
@QUESTION = I've set up a page with paragraph titles to the left of
the te<$IText Alignment>xt on a page. How do I get the opposite effect
for fa<$IFacing Pages View>cing pages? (Text on the left with paragraph
titles to the right of the text)
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Ventura provides the ability to set up different sp<$ISpacing
Attributes>acing attributes for each tag for both left and right pages. To
create the desired effect set up the spacing for the left page for
titles to be <169>In from Left<170> zero and text <169>In from Left<170>
two inches. For the right page, set <169>In from Right<170> spacing
for the text at two inches and <169>In from Left<170> spacing for
the titles at five inches. Note: these measurements are illustrations
and will have to be adjusted accoring to the width of text and titles
and the margins set for the page. They are presented to give you
an idea of how to create the effect.
@QUESTION = When I read my word processing files into Ventura the
<$IText alignment - tabs>text does not align the way it did in my
word processor. Why, and how do I fix it?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Some word processors do not insert true tab characters when
tabs are used, they only insert spaces. These spaces do not translate
correctly in Ventura and cause the columns to misalign. Make sure
you are using the proper instruction to set tabs in your word processor
and if all else fails delete the spaces within Ventura and use the
Tabbing feature provided in the Paragraph pull down menu.
@QUESTION = <$IRuling lines below>I have a document which uses the
same tag in numerous places through the document. The tag has a 36
fractional point ruling line below and when I print it out using my
Xerox 4045, the line varies in size from one appearance to another. Can
you tell me why?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = As it turns out, this document was printed out using the
150 DPI selection for the 4045. At 150 DPI resolution a line of this
thickness may vary if it borders between pixels. In one instance
it might take an extra pixel and in another instance it might not. When
printed at 300 DPI, the page printed without variation in line size.
@QUESTION = How are the <$ITabs>tab measurements oriented? I can
never seem to figure out where the tabs will appear on a page.
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Each tab measurement begins at the margin. For example:
a left tab, first tab, set at one inch will appear one inch from the
left margin. Tab two set at three inches will appear three inches
from the left margin, not three inches from the end of tab one.
@QUESTION = I would like to move a <$IPage breaks>heading from the
bottom of page one to the top of page two. What is the best way to
do this?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Under the Breaks pull down menu there is a selection that
allows you to determine when a Page Break will occur. By Selecting
<170>Before<170> for a tag, a page break will be inserted before the
tag each time it occurs.
@ANSWER2 = Note: If the tag is used many times through out the document,
and you want to use this effect selectively, it would be advisable
to create a new tag first, otherwise page breaks will occur everytime
the tag appears. Use the same attributes as the original tag only
modify the new tag with the page break turned on. Then re-tag the
headings which should specifically start on a new page.
@QUESTION = <$IText alignment>I am setting up a heading block for
a newsletter and I want the name address and phone number of the company
on the left of the heading against the <$IVertical tabs>left margin
and the volume and issue of the newsletter against the right margin. I
want the first line of name and address block to line up with the
first line of the volume and issue block as shown:
@LEFT = XYZ COMPANY <R>
123 First Street <R>
Dallas, Texas <R>
(214) <R>
123-4567
@RIGHT = Volume 1 <R>
Issue 12 <R>
November 12, 1986(
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWERLAST = There are two ways this could be done. Each method
requires that a special tag be created for the block of text on the
left and right. It also requires that the lines on the left and right
be linked together into one block of text. To do this type in the
first line of the left block followed by a line break (a CTRL RETURN). Follow
each line with a line break until the last line has been typed. The
last line should be followed by a paragraph end (a normal RETURN). Now
follow the same procedure for the right block, line breaks for each
line except the last, which will receive the normal RETURN. Create
a new tag for the block on the left and establish the appropriate
font size. Alignment for this tag should be Left. Now create a new
tag for the right block and assign font properties. For this tag
change the line break attribute to occur After the tag instead of
Before (this will place both tags beginning at the same vertical postition
on the page). Next select alignment and make this tag align from
the right. You should see the text on the right side of the page
with the end of each line against the right margin. Another option
would be to set the alignment for the right block as left aligned
with the spacing set In From Left far enough to position the block
properly. Either method will work, the only difference will be in
how the text aligns for the right block (left edge or right edge).
@MENU = Graphic Menu
@QUESTION = Can I change the spacing between lines on my Box Text
text?<$IBox Text spacing>
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Yes. The text in Box Text frames can be accessed in the
Paragraph tagging mode and manipulated in the same way other text
is modified. Simply increase your inter-line spacing.
@QUESTION = I drew a line using Ventura graphics and wanted to <$IGraphic
drawing - lines>place an "arrow" symbol on the left side of the line. I
selected Line attributes in the Graphics pull down menu and the "arrow"
symbol in the left column but when the screen came back the arrow
was on the right side of the line. Is this a bug?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = The Line attributes dialog box contains two columns of line
end attributes, the left column will change the originating end of
the line and the right column will change the terminating end of the
line. If you drew the line beginning on the right of the screen and
ending on the left, the left column will define the originating (in
this case the right side of the line) and the right column will define
the terminating (in this case the left side of the line) end.
@QUESTION = How can I <$IGraphics - copy>copy a Ventura graphic from
one page to another?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = In the frame mode, select the frame, on the originating
page, that the graphic is anchored to. Then change to the graphics
mode and select the graphic itself. Now use the Edit Pull Down menu
and the Copy Graphic selection (keyboard shortcut is shift delete)
to move a copy of the graphic to the clipboard. Once this has been
accomplished, go to the destination page and select a frame to anchor
the copied graphic to. If there are no frames on the destination
page you can create a small one in a margin so that it does not interfere
with text flow. Now that a frame has been selected, change to the
graphics mode and from the Edit Pull Down menu select Insert graphic
(Insert key can also be used as shortcut). The graphic will appear
on the page and can then be repositioned if necessary.
@QUESTION = Is there <$IGraphics - multiple lines>an easy way to create
a form with multiple graphic lines that will be used for fill-in-the-blank
entries?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = If all the lines will be the same length you can use the
Copy Graphic feature of Ventura to make multiple copies of the line. First,
draw the line using the Ventura graphics capability. Once the line
has been drawn to the proper length and you have released the mouse
button, hold down the shift key and press the delete key. This create
a copy of the original graphic. Now press the insert key which will
place another copy of the graphic directly over the original. Now
select the new graphic by placing the mouse cursor over the graphic
and pressing left button of the mouse. This selects the new graphic
and it can now be moved by holding down the left mouse button and
"dragging" the graphic until it appears in the proper position on
the screen. Release the mouse button and the graphic has been placed. Pressing
the insert key again will create another copy of the graphic which
can be repositioned and so on.
@QUESTION = I created a Box <$IBox Text>Text frame and it is repeating
on every page. <$IRepeating frames>Repeating frames is turned off,
why is the happening?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Box Text is a graphic feature of Ventura. All graphics
are <169>anchored<170> to frames. If no frame is created to anchor
a graphic, it defaults to the underlying page and will repeat on subsequent
pages. If there are no frames created specifically to receive text
on a page, you can still draw a small frame anywhere on the page (preferably
outside the margins of the underlying page, so as not to interfere
with text flow) to anchor graphics.
@QUESTION = I would like my ta<$IText Shading>bles to be shaded within
my chapter file, how do I accomplish this?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = You can use a rectangle created in the graphics mode to
overlay the tables select the desired shading using the fill attributes
and make sure you select transparent so that the tables will show
through the rectangle or square you create. Note: Be sure to create
a frame to anchor the graphics to, otherwise they will default to
the underlying page and be repeated in the same place on every page.
@QUESTION = I can not get a<$IBox Text> <169>Box Text<170> frame on
screen.
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Box Text frames are created by selecting the Graphics mode,
pointing to the Box Text selection and pressing the mouse button. This
activates Box Text generation, move the <169>corner display<170> to
the point on the screen where you would like the upper left corner
of the box to appear. Press and hold the mouse button and move the
indicator until you have created a box of the desired size, then release
the mouse button. You have now created a box in which you can insert
text. The words <169>Box Text<170> may be deleted using the text
editing capability available in Text Mode.
@QUESTION = I had four chapters in which box<$IBox text - lost after
save> text boxes were attached to the underlying page. After the chapters
were stored and reopened, the box text boxes were still there but
all the box text was gone. What happened?
@VERPATCH = 1.1(patch 1) bug--fixed in 1.1(patch 2)
@ANSWER = This is due to a bug in Version 1.1 Patch 1 (7/2/87). It
is fixed in Patch 2 (2/5/88).
@ANSWERLAST = <MU>WORKAROUND:<D> If the user first creates a frame
and then attaches graphics to that frame instead of the underlying
page, the box text should not be lost. This seems to be a successful
workaround in most situations.
@MENU = Options Menu
@QUESTION = I have indexed my document and found that sporadically
index entries are being lost when I generate my index.
@VERPATCH = 1.0 bug, 1.1(unpatched) bug--fixed in 1.1(patch 1)
@ANSWER = There was a problem with indexing in Version 1.0 and the
initial release of Version 1.1. It is corrected by Patch 1 (7/2/87).<$IIndex
entries dropped>
@QUESTION = I cannot see the pi<$IPictures>ctures I have loaded into
my document. Why?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Check the Options pull down menu to see if the <169>Pictures<170>
line says <169>Hide Pictures<170>. If it does then Select this line
and change the selection by pressing the mouse button. You should
now be able to see the pictures you have loaded. Note: It takes
the system longer to redraw a screen with pictures displayed. Once
you have determined that you have positioned your pictures correctly
you can speed up the screen redraw time by <169>hiding<170> pictures.
@QUESTION = How do I tra<$ITransport Chapter Files>nsport Ch<$ICopy
Chapter Files>apter files to another system?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Remember that there are several inter-related files that
are merged together to form a chapter. For expamle there is the chapter
file, associated text files, the style sheet, any line art or image
files and the width table used to create and subsequently print the
chapter. Just copying the file with the .CHP extension will <MU>not<D>
move all related parts of the document! Under the Options pull down
menu is a Multi-Chapter line selection. This is typically used to
link chapters together to form a publication, but it also provides
a copy utility that will assure that all elements of the chapter will
be copied.
@ANSWER2 = Select the Add a Chapter line selection and indicate the
chapter you would like to copy by pointing to it with the arrow and
pressing the mouse button. The chapter to be copied is now listed
as a chapter for the publication. Now move the arrow to the chapter
line again and press the mouse button highlighting the chapter. You
will notice that the last line selection on the right of the screen
is the <169>Copy All<170> selection. By Selecting this line option
Ventura will automatically identify and copy all elements of the chapter
you wish to move. A new dialog box will now appear asking you the
destination for the copied files. On the first line is the destination
for the .CHP or chapter file. Use the backspace key to erase the
line and type in the destination for this file. If, for example,
you are copying to the A: drive simply erase the line and type A:
. Now you will need to make sure that all related files will be copied
to the same place so Select the box near the bottom of the screen
that says <169>Make all directory entries the same as the first<170>. You
will see that all destinations for all possible elements have automatically
changed to the A: drive. Now Select OK and all files relating to
this chapter will be copied to the A: drive. Once this has been completed,
Select the Done Option and when Ventura asks if you would like to
Save or Abandon changes to the publication, Select Abandon.
@QUESTION = Will Ventura recognize<$IIndex> that <$IPage number -
in index>chapters start on a page number other than one and put the
correct page number in the index when generated?
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Yes. Ventura does look at the chapter file and will recognize
a starting page number other than one. The correct page number will
be placed in the index.
@QUESTION = Can I mix and match screen fonts<$IScreen fonts - mix
& match> that may have different screen resolutions?
@VERPATCH = 1.1(all)
@ANSWER = Yes, provided that there are no duplicate screen fonts.
For example, you can not have a 10 point Helvetica normal screen fonts
in two different screen resolutions.
@QUESTION = On certain pages in a chapter, several figures appear
in frames on the page. When TOC<$ITOC - frames out of order> is generated
for the chapter, the figures are listed out of order.
@VERPATCH = All
@ANSWER = Table of Contents lists frames in the order created. This
is not necessarily the same as the order in which they are labeled,
if manual labels are used.